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From Leo Simons <m...@leosimons.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket
Date Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:24:53 GMT
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 09:37:04AM -0700, Igor Vaynberg wrote:
> >* release elsewhere, making sure to give things an appropriately different
> >   name and making sure both users and the incubator PMC understand what
> >   it all means and what is going on
> 
> imho, i would much rather see wicket-1.2.2 rather then
> wicket-incubating-1.2.2 as a release.

and apache-wicket-2.0.5 looks even better, doesn't it? Incubation is not really
about "looking good". The key point is that it is clear to everyone what-is-what
and what is going on. And when a project enters incubation at apache, we (well,
the project's committers. PMCs don't really "do" much) all strive to make very
clear that this incubation thing is happening and what it means.

Hence, I would much rather see a group of developers who would be happy to see a
wicket-incubating-1.2.2 release since it shows they want to try just as hard
as me to explain to their users what is being provided.

> to me incubating says "not ready for
> production use". it might mean something different in the apache context but
> we cant expect all our existing users or those who stumble upon wicket for
> the first time to enlighten themselves.

^^ difference of opinion there. I fully expect users to read and understand
relevant licenses, disclaimers, notices, etc. Those that don't are doing
themselves a disservice and I'm not all that inclined to cater for them; rather,
I'm inclined to try and change their behaviour.

If "user" equated to "my granny" I might think differently (probably not, and
hence the world is full with big "I have read the above terms and agree to them"
buttons), but AIUI users of wicket are software developers (and probably pretty
good ones) themselves.

> so i would rather release on our existing home at sf.net
> 
> Leo, could you elaborate a bit more on "give things an appropriately
> different name"? we just call those releases wicket (like what weve been
> doing) as opposed to apache-wicket?

I could but I'm not gonna. I don't speak for the incubator PMC and I'm not
one of your mentors either. The best you'll get out of me is behaving like a
broken record -- what needs to happen needs to be in the best interest of
everyone for a broad definition of "everyone", and the incubator PMC needs to
agree on that best interest judgement when it comes to projects incubating @
apache. We have a policy, there might be wiggle room, there might be a small
or big change of policy, etc. This is apache after all, very little things are
set in stone, and the way things change is well-documented.

We've had this very discussion quite a few times over the last few years and
the current policy pretty much reflects what the incubator community currently
considers best practice, and for the exact details, the whys and the hows, I'll
refer once again to our mailing list archives, since its not easily summarised,
and I'd most likely do a bad job trying to.

cheers!

LSD

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