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From Jim Jagielski <...@jaguNET.com>
Subject Re: Release votes (was: [VOTE] Incubator PMC to approve ActiveMQ 4.0 Release)
Date Fri, 02 Jun 2006 15:10:59 GMT

On Jun 2, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Leo Simons wrote:

> (this is a rant and the beginnings of a proposal which has nothing  
> to do
> in particular with James, ActiveMQ, or its release)
>
> On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 01:11:35PM +0100, James Strachan wrote:
>> In accordance with the incubator release procedure (see below) the
>> ActiveMQ community has voted on and approved the 4.0 release binary.
>>
>> We would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC to
>> perform the release.
>
> Everytime I read something like this I get terribly annoyed. People  
> are
> doing stuff, trying to comply with all kinds of policies, and then  
> instead
> of self-governing they have to go ask permission. Its wrong.  
> Permission is
> something kids ask their parents for. When you need to ask for it,  
> you're
> not self-governing. If we're to have self-governing communities we  
> need to
> have them be like that while incubating. Self-governance is grown, not
> "bolted on" after graduation.
>

Think of the Incubator as sort of a permanent "member" of the PPMC.

In any case, it's the release and distribution of s/w which
is the most legally significant (well... *one* of them)
thing the ASF does. As such, s/w release must have
adequate oversight... Since Incubated projects ride that
fence of being ASF projects but "not completely" it really
requires that the Incubator PMC agree to such releases.

No expects that upon graduation, somehow the project
is instantly granted the ability for self-governance.
Instead, when they reach that stage where they are
actively able to self-govern, and are really doing
it, then they are ready to graduate.

Think of them as baby birds in a nest: we don't kick them out
and then expect them to fly. They leave the nest *when*
they learn to fly :)

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