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From Dan Diephouse <...@envoisolutions.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
Date Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:30:44 GMT
+1 - The XFire community will definitely still need the ability to make 
releases after we graduate. As you said, there are big incompatabile 
changes (I think of this as like a 2.0)  and its a merge, so we can't 
leave existing users in the dust.
- Dan

Guillaume Nodet wrote:

> Could you please explain the rational behind that ?
> When merging two existing code bases, the two community will
> certainly focus on the merge, but existing users should not be
> left without any support.  Even when the podling start
> release something, there are big changes that the new project
> will be incompatible with the old donations.
> This of course leads to the need for bug fix releases on the old
> projects.
> On another point, the old code bases are open source and when
> licensed under ASL, you have no way to control who use
> those codebases.
> Merging two projects give a third project, not something that is
> backward compatible with the old codebases...
>
> Cheers,
> Guillaume Nodet
>
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
>> Yes, up until the podling can make releases, the old
>> "external" projects still can do releases. However,
>> it's expected that once the podling starts releases,
>> that the 2 external ones shut down.
>>
>> On Jun 30, 2006, at 9:30 AM, Dan Diephouse wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jim,
>>> Even once we're in the incubator the XFire project will still have  
>>> to do releases. We have a 1.2 release in progress and will be doing  
>>> bug fix releases as well.  Additionally, I would imagine IONA might  
>>> want to issue a bug fix release at some point for Celtix. I can't  
>>> really comment on them though.
>>>
>>> - Dan
>>>
>>> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>>
>>>> We've handled these types of things before, for example
>>>> with SpamAssassin and Cayenne, when external codebases
>>>> were being folded into the incubator. What they've done
>>>> is mention on the old sites that the projects are
>>>> now ASF Incubator projects, etc... The intent is that
>>>> until the code has been relicensed to the AL 2.0, we
>>>> cannot host it here, but as soon as that happens, the
>>>> old sites no longer host the current codebases, just
>>>> the old ones.
>>>>
>>>> At no time should Celtix and XFire continue parallel
>>>> development with what is in the Incubator after the
>>>> podling has started.
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 30, 2006, at 8:01 AM, Paul Fremantle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Robert +1
>>>>>
>>>>> I think also, given that I understand that the Celtix and XFire
>>>>> projects will remain alive outside, at least for the initial future,
>>>>> that it would help reduce confusion to have a separate and distinct
>>>>> name for the Apache project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/30/06, robert burrell donkin  
>>>>> <robertburrelldonkin@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/21/06, Justin Erenkrantz <justin@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On 6/21/06, Dan Diephouse <dan@envoisolutions.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > > Currently the plan is to leave both the old websites &
docs   
>>>>>> will at the
>>>>>> > > old locations. And XFire will be making release until 

>>>>>> Celtixfire
>>>>>> > > releases a .0 release. I think Celtix will probably make
 
>>>>>> some  1.x or
>>>>>> > > 1.0.x releases as well.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Given that, I think it's probably prudent to consider   
>>>>>> alternative names.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Is this official policy? Or do we just need to come to some
  
>>>>>> consensus as
>>>>>> > > to whether or not this will be confusing for our users?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Our naming policy is to strive very hard not to conflict with
any
>>>>>> > other projects.  If those projects are going to continue   
>>>>>> independently
>>>>>> > of CeltiXfire, then I'd view that as a conflict we should avoid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i wonder as well whether iona may need to consider whether they 
 
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> understand the implications of choosing this name for the  
>>>>>> apache  project.
>>>>>> the ASF would own the Apache CeltiXFire trademark and the   
>>>>>> community is very
>>>>>> sensitive to issues around usage especially with regard to  
>>>>>> marketing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> our model is different from objectweb and it is likely that the 
 
>>>>>> existing
>>>>>> approach that iona takes when marketing celtix would need to be 
 
>>>>>> changed.
>>>>>> apache is really centered on individuals. corporations of all   
>>>>>> kinds as well
>>>>>> as many individuals find space to coorporate by this focus.  
>>>>>> this  corporation
>>>>>> transparency implies neutrality. AIUI this is very different to 
 
>>>>>> the approach
>>>>>> taken at (for example) objectweb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in addition, it is possible that iona may wish to maintain   
>>>>>> separate patched
>>>>>> versions of the apache codebase. this may cause difficulties if 
 
>>>>>> iona needed
>>>>>> to promote these products using an apache trademark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> quite a lot of energy would be required for iona to maintain   
>>>>>> marketing
>>>>>> material making extensive use of a possible Apache CeltiXFire   
>>>>>> trademark. a
>>>>>> growing number of projects are also known to the outside by   
>>>>>> marketing names
>>>>>> (for example apache derby). this allows a much greater degree  
>>>>>> of  freedom as
>>>>>> well as building separate value for their corporation in their  
>>>>>> brand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this may help to explain the trend towards unique but non-  
>>>>>> descriptive names
>>>>>> for projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - robert
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Paul Fremantle
>>>>> VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>>>>>
>>>>> http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
>>>>> paul@wso2.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------

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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Dan Diephouse
>>> (616) 971-2053
>>> Envoi Solutions LLC
>>> http://netzooid.com
>>>
>>>
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>>
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-- 
Dan Diephouse
(616) 971-2053
Envoi Solutions LLC
http://netzooid.com


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