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From Guillaume Nodet <guillaume.no...@worldonline.fr>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
Date Fri, 30 Jun 2006 18:21:25 GMT
Could you please explain the rational behind that ?
When merging two existing code bases, the two community will
certainly focus on the merge, but existing users should not be
left without any support.  Even when the podling start
release something, there are big changes that the new project
will be incompatible with the old donations.
This of course leads to the need for bug fix releases on the old
projects.
On another point, the old code bases are open source and when
licensed under ASL, you have no way to control who use
those codebases.
Merging two projects give a third project, not something that is
backward compatible with the old codebases...

Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet

Jim Jagielski wrote:

> Yes, up until the podling can make releases, the old
> "external" projects still can do releases. However,
> it's expected that once the podling starts releases,
> that the 2 external ones shut down.
>
> On Jun 30, 2006, at 9:30 AM, Dan Diephouse wrote:
>
>> Hi Jim,
>> Even once we're in the incubator the XFire project will still have  
>> to do releases. We have a 1.2 release in progress and will be doing  
>> bug fix releases as well.  Additionally, I would imagine IONA might  
>> want to issue a bug fix release at some point for Celtix. I can't  
>> really comment on them though.
>>
>> - Dan
>>
>> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>
>>> We've handled these types of things before, for example
>>> with SpamAssassin and Cayenne, when external codebases
>>> were being folded into the incubator. What they've done
>>> is mention on the old sites that the projects are
>>> now ASF Incubator projects, etc... The intent is that
>>> until the code has been relicensed to the AL 2.0, we
>>> cannot host it here, but as soon as that happens, the
>>> old sites no longer host the current codebases, just
>>> the old ones.
>>>
>>> At no time should Celtix and XFire continue parallel
>>> development with what is in the Incubator after the
>>> podling has started.
>>>
>>> On Jun 30, 2006, at 8:01 AM, Paul Fremantle wrote:
>>>
>>>> Robert +1
>>>>
>>>> I think also, given that I understand that the Celtix and XFire
>>>> projects will remain alive outside, at least for the initial future,
>>>> that it would help reduce confusion to have a separate and distinct
>>>> name for the Apache project.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> On 6/30/06, robert burrell donkin  <robertburrelldonkin@gmail.com>
 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/21/06, Justin Erenkrantz <justin@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 6/21/06, Dan Diephouse <dan@envoisolutions.com> wrote:
>>>>> > > Currently the plan is to leave both the old websites &
docs   
>>>>> will at the
>>>>> > > old locations. And XFire will be making release until  Celtixfire
>>>>> > > releases a .0 release. I think Celtix will probably make  
>>>>> some  1.x or
>>>>> > > 1.0.x releases as well.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Given that, I think it's probably prudent to consider   
>>>>> alternative names.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>> > Is this official policy? Or do we just need to come to some   
>>>>> consensus as
>>>>> > > to whether or not this will be confusing for our users?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Our naming policy is to strive very hard not to conflict with any
>>>>> > other projects.  If those projects are going to continue   
>>>>> independently
>>>>> > of CeltiXfire, then I'd view that as a conflict we should avoid.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> i wonder as well whether iona may need to consider whether they   
>>>>> really
>>>>> understand the implications of choosing this name for the  apache  
>>>>> project.
>>>>> the ASF would own the Apache CeltiXFire trademark and the   
>>>>> community is very
>>>>> sensitive to issues around usage especially with regard to  
>>>>> marketing.
>>>>>
>>>>> our model is different from objectweb and it is likely that the   
>>>>> existing
>>>>> approach that iona takes when marketing celtix would need to be   
>>>>> changed.
>>>>> apache is really centered on individuals. corporations of all   
>>>>> kinds as well
>>>>> as many individuals find space to coorporate by this focus.  this  
>>>>> corporation
>>>>> transparency implies neutrality. AIUI this is very different to   
>>>>> the approach
>>>>> taken at (for example) objectweb.
>>>>>
>>>>> in addition, it is possible that iona may wish to maintain   
>>>>> separate patched
>>>>> versions of the apache codebase. this may cause difficulties if   
>>>>> iona needed
>>>>> to promote these products using an apache trademark.
>>>>>
>>>>> quite a lot of energy would be required for iona to maintain   
>>>>> marketing
>>>>> material making extensive use of a possible Apache CeltiXFire   
>>>>> trademark. a
>>>>> growing number of projects are also known to the outside by   
>>>>> marketing names
>>>>> (for example apache derby). this allows a much greater degree  of  
>>>>> freedom as
>>>>> well as building separate value for their corporation in their  
>>>>> brand.
>>>>>
>>>>> this may help to explain the trend towards unique but non-  
>>>>> descriptive names
>>>>> for projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> - robert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Paul Fremantle
>>>> VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>>>>
>>>> http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
>>>> paul@wso2.com
>>>>
>>>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Dan Diephouse
>> (616) 971-2053
>> Envoi Solutions LLC
>> http://netzooid.com
>>
>>
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