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From "Sakala, Adinarayana" <ASAK...@iona.com>
Subject RE: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
Date Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:01:25 GMT
FYI, I updated the wiki page [1] to remove the item "Official Build System".
I will look into Apache Gump for this purpose.

[1] - http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CeltiXfireProposal

thanks,
Adi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sakala, Adinarayana 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
> 
> 
> > Well-written proposal. 
> Thanks.
> 
> > Nevertheless, do you think there's any
> > chance someone could give a technical summary of the above that the
> > people who haven't a clue what most of the used acronyms mean can
> > also understand?
> The CeltiXfire project is intended for enterprise SOA and Web 
> services developers, especially those using Java.  It 
> supports the relevant JCP specifications we think will help 
> them, such as annotations for including Web services related 
> metadata into Java classes, interfacing technologies for 
> handling remote invocations, and multiple data formats and 
> communication protocols for compatibility with a range of 
> existing middleware systems.  The project also integrates 
> with other projects developing related containers for 
> services and SOA, such as ServiceMix and Tuscany, which 
> address deployment issues and compatibility between 
> integration oriented technologies like process engines, 
> transformation engines, etc. and the enterprise Web services 
> environment. The project is really intended for Java 
> developers looking for API, metadata, and deployment 
> infrastructure around service creation and communication. A 
> lot of the acronyms mentioned represent a sort of glue 
> between the core functions of service creation and 
> communication and other relevant enterprise environments and 
> technologies.
> Hope this helps. (I probably included more acronyms in 
> explaining things ;))
> 
> > Trying myself, I've always understood XFire to be a direct 
> alternative
> > for Axis1 (I have yet to get to grips with Axis2, but I assume
> > some of the same is true there), aka a "SOAP stack". Is 
> that somewhat
> > true? And then, is Celtix such a beastie as well?
> Celtix includes SOAP stack capability when needed but it is 
> not simply a SOAP stack.  Celtix is a pluggable 
> infrastructure that allows transports and bindings to be 
> plugged but yet decoupled from one another via configuration files.
> Best example of this is, Celtix service can be made available 
> via CORBA for communication, this is completely done by 
> configuration. This is achieved by combining Celtix and Apache Yoko.
> From my point of view supporting alternative ways of 
> communication is real key especially when talking about a
> SOA Infrastructure that provides extensibility for legacy integration.
> 
> > (and "stack" means
> > that a rather big tower of software is needed to do that)
> what we have in mind is, more like a pluggable core with lots 
> of options. 
> 
> > ? The one JSR mentioned above is 181 which I believe is part of Java
> > EE and not the JDK, right?
> I belive JSR 181 is part of EE.
> 
> > Which JSRs are you referencing?
> JAX-WS 2.0 which i think is definetely part of JSE [2].
>  
> 
> > I think some more of an idea of who these 
> > people are and what
> > their existing involvement is would be nice. Perhaps the 
> > people on the initial
> > committer list could add details (like affiliation and which 
> > codebases they work
> > on now) to the wiki page?
> Sounds good. Wiki page [1] is now updated with relevant information.
> 
> > >  * Official Build Systems 
> > 
> > What does this mean?
> I was requesting if there is an official apache continuous 
> integration server like Continuum or Cruisecontrol or 
> something else, we would like our project to be setup as well.
> If this is not something that is setup as part of standard 
> process, i am happy to remove that part of request and deal 
> with it later.
> 
> > I see no particular reason to withold a +1 beyond that
> This is great. Thanks!
> 
> [1] - http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CeltiXfireProposal
> [2] - http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/index.html
> 
> Regards,
> Adi Sakala
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Leo Simons [mailto:mail@leosimons.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:31 AM
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 01:52:02PM -0400, Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
> > > Below is a project proposal for incubation consideration. 
> > 
> > Well-written proposal. Merging two codebases is hard though!
> > 
> > What is it?
> > -----------
> > > Project CeltiXfire is a SOA infrastructure framework 
> > focused on implementation of JCP and web service 
> > > standards while also providing extensibility for legacy 
> > integration. It is a merge of two matured open source 
> > > projects and communities, ObjectWeb Celtix 
> > (http://celtix.objectweb.org) and Codehaus Xfire 
> > > (http://xfire.codehaus.org). It will implement the JAX-WS, 
> > JAX-WSA, and JSR-181 standards. Core to this is 
> > > support for web service standards like SOAP 1.1, SOAP 1.2, 
> > WS-I BasicProfile, WS-Security, WS-Addressing, 
> > > WS-RM, and WS-Policy. This project will support several 
> > programming models like JAX-WS, JBI (ServiceMix), SCA 
> > > (Tuscany), and CORBA services (Yoko).  We will leverage 
> > open source components wherever possible, for example 
> > > we intend to use WSS4J for ws-security from the Apache Web 
> > Services project. One goal of this project is to 
> > > provide public APIs that match the JSR standards. 
> > Furthermore, the scope of this project is to provide SOA 
> > > infrastructure for both modern web services and for legacy 
> > systems. The seed code has been designed to provide 
> > > a pluggable architecture to support both XML and non-XML 
> > type bindings in combination with any type of 
> > > transport. For example, Celtix is in the process of being 
> > extended to provide a CORBA binding as part of the 
> > > Apache Yoko project (in incubation). Additional examples of 
> > non-XML bindings that could be supported in the 
> > > future include fixed length record bindings, which are 
> > critical to integrating mainframe systems into a SOA. 
> > > The current infrastructure code is designed for flexible 
> > deployment in a variety of containers including JBI, 
> > > J2EE, SCA and servlet containers.
> > 
> > I have absolutely no idea what the above means, but I've given up
> > trying to make sense of the "java enterprise" space some time ago
> > so that's to be expected. Nevertheless, do you think there's any
> > chance someone could give a technical summary of the above that the
> > people who haven't a clue what most of the used acronyms mean can
> > also understand?
> > 
> > Trying myself, I've always understood XFire to be a direct 
> alternative
> > for Axis1 (I have yet to get to grips with Axis2, but I assume
> > some of the same is true there), aka a "SOAP stack". Is 
> that somewhat
> > true? And then, is Celtix such a beastie as well? Can the 
> > stuff above be
> > summarized as "flexible, standards-compliant, robust, (insert more
> > popular adjectives here), SOAP stack server framework architecture
> > (insert more popular nouns here)"?
> > 
> > (and "SOAP" is a fluffy optionally-XML-heavy way to have pieces of
> > software talk to each other over optionally-the web, and 
> "stack" means
> > that a rather big tower of software is needed to do that)
> > 
> > >  * Harmony: Harmony is implementing Java 5.0 and requires 
> > support for many of the JSR that CeltiXfire will provide. 
> > 
> > ? The one JSR mentioned above is 181 which I believe is part of Java
> > EE and not the JDK, right? Which JSRs are you referencing?
> > 
> > Who?
> > ----
> > > The authors of the existing code have extensive 
> experience with open
> > > source already. The initial list of committers includes 9 
> > Apache Committers.
> > > They are involved in: 
> > >  * Apache Continuum 
> > >  * Apache Geronimo 
> > >  * Apache ServiceMix 
> > >  * Apache Tuscany 
> > >  * Apache Yoko 
> > 
> > and others :). There's also a lot of other people with names 
> > I don't recognize
> > at all, and some I can't seem to find at all from a quick 
> > scan of the celtix and
> > xfire dev lists. I think some more of an idea of who these 
> > people are and what
> > their existing involvement is would be nice. Perhaps the 
> > people on the initial
> > committer list could add details (like affiliation and which 
> > codebases they work
> > on now) to the wiki page?
> > 
> > What is needed?
> > ---------------
> > > == ASF Resources to be Created ==
> > ...
> > >  * Official Build Systems 
> > 
> > What does this mean?
> > 
> > > == Sponsor ==
> > > We kindly request the Incubator PMC to accept sponsorship 
> > for this proposal. 
> > 
> > Though some clarifications (see above) would be nice, I see 
> > no particular reason
> > to withold a +1 beyond that (but oh, how I would sometimes 
> > *love* to be able to
> > decide technical direction for the ASF :P ).
> > 
> > LSD
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> 
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