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From "Sakala, Adinarayana" <ASAK...@iona.com>
Subject RE: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
Date Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:44:36 GMT
> Well-written proposal. 
Thanks.

> Nevertheless, do you think there's any
> chance someone could give a technical summary of the above that the
> people who haven't a clue what most of the used acronyms mean can
> also understand?
The CeltiXfire project is intended for enterprise SOA and Web services developers, especially
those using Java.  It supports the relevant JCP specifications we think will help them, such
as annotations for including Web services related metadata into Java classes, interfacing
technologies for handling remote invocations, and multiple data formats and communication
protocols for compatibility with a range of existing middleware systems.  The project also
integrates with other projects developing related containers for services and SOA, such as
ServiceMix and Tuscany, which address deployment issues and compatibility between integration
oriented technologies like process engines, transformation engines, etc. and the enterprise
Web services environment. The project is really intended for Java developers looking for API,
metadata, and deployment infrastructure around service creation and communication. A lot of
the acronyms mentioned represent a sort of glue between the core functions of service creation
and communication and other relevant enterprise environments and technologies.
Hope this helps. (I probably included more acronyms in explaining things ;))

> Trying myself, I've always understood XFire to be a direct alternative
> for Axis1 (I have yet to get to grips with Axis2, but I assume
> some of the same is true there), aka a "SOAP stack". Is that somewhat
> true? And then, is Celtix such a beastie as well?
Celtix includes SOAP stack capability when needed but it is not simply a SOAP stack.  Celtix
is a pluggable infrastructure that allows transports and bindings to be plugged but yet decoupled
from one another via configuration files.
Best example of this is, Celtix service can be made available via CORBA for communication,
this is completely done by configuration. This is achieved by combining Celtix and Apache
Yoko.
>From my point of view supporting alternative ways of communication is real key especially
when talking about a
SOA Infrastructure that provides extensibility for legacy integration.

> (and "stack" means
> that a rather big tower of software is needed to do that)
what we have in mind is, more like a pluggable core with lots of options. 

> ? The one JSR mentioned above is 181 which I believe is part of Java
> EE and not the JDK, right?
I belive JSR 181 is part of EE.

> Which JSRs are you referencing?
JAX-WS 2.0 which i think is definetely part of JSE [2].
 

> I think some more of an idea of who these 
> people are and what
> their existing involvement is would be nice. Perhaps the 
> people on the initial
> committer list could add details (like affiliation and which 
> codebases they work
> on now) to the wiki page?
Sounds good. Wiki page [1] is now updated with relevant information.

> >  * Official Build Systems 
> 
> What does this mean?
I was requesting if there is an official apache continuous integration server like Continuum
or Cruisecontrol or something else, we would like our project to be setup as well.
If this is not something that is setup as part of standard process, i am happy to remove that
part of request and deal with it later.

> I see no particular reason to withold a +1 beyond that
This is great. Thanks!

[1] - http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CeltiXfireProposal
[2] - http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/index.html

Regards,
Adi Sakala

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo Simons [mailto:mail@leosimons.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:31 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 01:52:02PM -0400, Sakala, Adinarayana wrote:
> > Below is a project proposal for incubation consideration. 
> 
> Well-written proposal. Merging two codebases is hard though!
> 
> What is it?
> -----------
> > Project CeltiXfire is a SOA infrastructure framework 
> focused on implementation of JCP and web service 
> > standards while also providing extensibility for legacy 
> integration. It is a merge of two matured open source 
> > projects and communities, ObjectWeb Celtix 
> (http://celtix.objectweb.org) and Codehaus Xfire 
> > (http://xfire.codehaus.org). It will implement the JAX-WS, 
> JAX-WSA, and JSR-181 standards. Core to this is 
> > support for web service standards like SOAP 1.1, SOAP 1.2, 
> WS-I BasicProfile, WS-Security, WS-Addressing, 
> > WS-RM, and WS-Policy. This project will support several 
> programming models like JAX-WS, JBI (ServiceMix), SCA 
> > (Tuscany), and CORBA services (Yoko).  We will leverage 
> open source components wherever possible, for example 
> > we intend to use WSS4J for ws-security from the Apache Web 
> Services project. One goal of this project is to 
> > provide public APIs that match the JSR standards. 
> Furthermore, the scope of this project is to provide SOA 
> > infrastructure for both modern web services and for legacy 
> systems. The seed code has been designed to provide 
> > a pluggable architecture to support both XML and non-XML 
> type bindings in combination with any type of 
> > transport. For example, Celtix is in the process of being 
> extended to provide a CORBA binding as part of the 
> > Apache Yoko project (in incubation). Additional examples of 
> non-XML bindings that could be supported in the 
> > future include fixed length record bindings, which are 
> critical to integrating mainframe systems into a SOA. 
> > The current infrastructure code is designed for flexible 
> deployment in a variety of containers including JBI, 
> > J2EE, SCA and servlet containers.
> 
> I have absolutely no idea what the above means, but I've given up
> trying to make sense of the "java enterprise" space some time ago
> so that's to be expected. Nevertheless, do you think there's any
> chance someone could give a technical summary of the above that the
> people who haven't a clue what most of the used acronyms mean can
> also understand?
> 
> Trying myself, I've always understood XFire to be a direct alternative
> for Axis1 (I have yet to get to grips with Axis2, but I assume
> some of the same is true there), aka a "SOAP stack". Is that somewhat
> true? And then, is Celtix such a beastie as well? Can the 
> stuff above be
> summarized as "flexible, standards-compliant, robust, (insert more
> popular adjectives here), SOAP stack server framework architecture
> (insert more popular nouns here)"?
> 
> (and "SOAP" is a fluffy optionally-XML-heavy way to have pieces of
> software talk to each other over optionally-the web, and "stack" means
> that a rather big tower of software is needed to do that)
> 
> >  * Harmony: Harmony is implementing Java 5.0 and requires 
> support for many of the JSR that CeltiXfire will provide. 
> 
> ? The one JSR mentioned above is 181 which I believe is part of Java
> EE and not the JDK, right? Which JSRs are you referencing?
> 
> Who?
> ----
> > The authors of the existing code have extensive experience with open
> > source already. The initial list of committers includes 9 
> Apache Committers.
> > They are involved in: 
> >  * Apache Continuum 
> >  * Apache Geronimo 
> >  * Apache ServiceMix 
> >  * Apache Tuscany 
> >  * Apache Yoko 
> 
> and others :). There's also a lot of other people with names 
> I don't recognize
> at all, and some I can't seem to find at all from a quick 
> scan of the celtix and
> xfire dev lists. I think some more of an idea of who these 
> people are and what
> their existing involvement is would be nice. Perhaps the 
> people on the initial
> committer list could add details (like affiliation and which 
> codebases they work
> on now) to the wiki page?
> 
> What is needed?
> ---------------
> > == ASF Resources to be Created ==
> ...
> >  * Official Build Systems 
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> > == Sponsor ==
> > We kindly request the Incubator PMC to accept sponsorship 
> for this proposal. 
> 
> Though some clarifications (see above) would be nice, I see 
> no particular reason
> to withold a +1 beyond that (but oh, how I would sometimes 
> *love* to be able to
> decide technical direction for the ASF :P ).
> 
> LSD
> 
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