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From Leo Simons <>
Subject Re: Various
Date Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:41:10 GMT

(I'm a big BileBlog fan. I'm ever so upset that Geir always gets named
when it comes to Harmony while I and more importantly quite a few others
also pour lots of effort in too.

I did a lightning talk at ApacheCon Las Vegas titled "The ASF sucks".
I had 5 minutes, I could've gone on for 30. Lots of fun. I think most
people liked it. I'm a committer and member and things like that
around here. Most people around here appreciate some good roasting or
bile as much as the next person.)

On Fri, Jun 23, 2006 at 05:52:51AM +0100, Hani Suleiman wrote:
> I'm fairly astounded by the amount of email generated due to my name  
> being on the initial committer list.

I would say I was a little surprised. This e-mail of yours is also a bit
of a surprise though.

Nevertheless. To respond to this actual email. says

"The Apache projects are characterized by a collaborative, consensus based development process,
an open and 
pragmatic software license, and a desire to create high quality software that leads the way
in its field. We 
consider ourselves not simply a group of projects sharing a server, but rather a community
of developers and 

Some of the keywords there relevant to this thread are "collaborative"
and "community". We expect many simple things from each other such as

  * showing respect for your peers
  * making sure your e-mails to apache mailing lists are PG-13 and
    preferably suitable for all ages
  * not making unfounded assertions
  * never "flaming" other people, especially not in public
  * no trolling or flaming in general

Being frank and undiplomatic is fine. I'm frank and undiplomatic all the
time. Saying some piece of software is bad is fine (if backed up by
technical argument or reference). For example if I mention that I think
that SOAP is a bad idea in the first place (I do) and that I think that
all implementations of it today all have rather serious problems (for
example, scalability is simply still a joke. 50 than 3 requests per second
is still abonimable. I want 5000, and mind you, when running on my
laptop), that is fine.

But e-mails like this one basically do fit the 20-year-old textbook
definitions of "trolling" and "flaming" that the usenet people invented way
back. I won't bother picking it apart to point this out, I'm rather confident
you know exactly what I mean. Being frank and undiplomatic again, we don't
have all that many people around here who repeatedly display that kind of
behaviour on apache mailing lists, and that's not about to change.

Now, could we please get back to more interesting things?


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