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From "Davanum Srinivas" <dava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] CeltiXfire Project
Date Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:09:49 GMT
Dan,

ok. let's stick to the technical side for a minute and let me layout a logic.

- Tuscany started with an Axis1 binding and then they added Axis2.
When Celtix guys wanted to do the same, We welcomed Dan and got him
cranking.
- So Tuscany is better off now as a container that supports multiple
soap engines.

Are u with me so far?

- CeltixFire's vision is to be a SOA Infrastructure project with all
things pluggable.
- CeltixFire aims to include both ServiceMix and Tuscany
- ServiceMix and Tuscany both support multiple soap engines AFAIK.

Again, Are u with me so far?

So, why is it a crime to ask if Axis2 can be one-of-many pluggable
soap engine in a "SOA Infrastructure" project?

Where did my logic go haywire?

thanks,
dims




On 6/21/06, Dan Diephouse <dan@envoisolutions.com> wrote:
> Hi Dims,
>
> Comments inline.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> > Folks,
> >
> > I don't even know where to start. 32 people? wow!
> >
> Keep in mind we're merging two distinct communties, its additive. If you
> have ideas on how to create a somewhat smaller list without presupposing
> that a person won't contribute, I'm all ears.
> > I was looking for discussions on the celtix-dev@ [1] on xfire-dev@ [2]
> > and was unpleasantly surprised when i found nothing. I wanted to get
> > some background on what the integration points are between the 2
> > engines and did not find any. In fact there was no mention of Celtix
> > on the xfire list and vice versa. Forget about any discussions between
> > the "individuals" that compose the community about moving to Apache :(
> >
> Even at Apache, not all discussions are public. Think of the discussion
> as having occurred on a PMC list. I would also like to add that one of
> the reasons for coming to Apache is to create a good place for
> discussions going forward. Hopefully we can have some good on the list
> discussions on how the merge will look provided we get accepted.
> > Please don't call it a framework if things are not pluggable. Basic
> > example, is it possible to switch the soap engine from whatever it is
> > (or will be!) to Axis2. FWIW, it is a complete and total overlap of
> > things already in progress in various existing Apache projects.
> Is XFire not pluggable because it doesn't have an Axis2 plugin? That
> seems like an odd standard of criteria for me. (Although it is
> technically possible to intercept the message and forward it to Axis2,
> and I don't really see why that'd be technically impossible after the
> merge either).
>
> Here's a question: Why would there be blossoming XFire and Celtix
> communities if Axis2 was the end all be all of soap/web services? Its a
> complicated answer and to conclude that things are a complete overlap is
> a gross over simplification of the matter.
> > Best of luck to you all!!
> >
> > thanks,
> > dims
> >
> > [1] http://mail-archive.objectweb.org/celtix-dev/index.html
> > [2] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.xfire.devel
> >
> > On 6/20/06, Sakala, Adinarayana <ASAKALA@iona.com> wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Below is a project proposal for incubation consideration.
> >> The project welcomes your feedback as well as interest in involvement.
> >> This proposal is also located online at
> >> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CeltiXfireProposal
> >>
> >> == CeltiXfire Proposal ==
> >>
> >> Project CeltiXfire is a SOA infrastructure framework focused on
> >> implementation of JCP and web service standards while also providing
> >> extensibility for legacy integration. It is a merge of two matured
> >> open source projects and communities, ObjectWeb Celtix
> >> (http://celtix.objectweb.org) and Codehaus Xfire
> >> (http://xfire.codehaus.org). It will implement the JAX-WS, JAX-WSA,
> >> and JSR-181 standards. Core to this is support for web service
> >> standards like SOAP 1.1, SOAP 1.2, WS-I BasicProfile, WS-Security,
> >> WS-Addressing, WS-RM, and WS-Policy. This project will support
> >> several programming models like JAX-WS, JBI (ServiceMix), SCA
> >> (Tuscany), and CORBA services (Yoko).  We will leverage open source
> >> components wherever possible, for example we intend to use WSS4J for
> >> ws-security from the Apache Web Services project. One goal of this
> >> project is to provide public APIs that match the JSR standards.
> >> Furthermore, the scope of this project is to provide SOA
> >> infrastructure for both modern web services and for legacy systems.
> >> The seed code has been designed to provide a pluggable architecture
> >> to support both XML and non-XML type bindings in combination with any
> >> type of transport. For example, Celtix is in the process of being
> >> extended to provide a CORBA binding as part of the Apache Yoko
> >> project (in incubation). Additional examples of non-XML bindings that
> >> could be supported in the future include fixed length record
> >> bindings, which are critical to integrating mainframe systems into a
> >> SOA. The current infrastructure code is designed for flexible
> >> deployment in a variety of containers including JBI, J2EE, SCA and
> >> servlet containers.
> >>
> >> == Rationale ==
> >> The project is interested in moving to Apache for the following
> >> reasons: To provide Apache-licensed implementations of the relevant
> >> web service JSR standards: JAX-WS, JAX-WSA, JSR-181, and JSR-265
> >> standards and to test those implementations with the applicable JSR
> >> TCKs, to become better integrated with the Geronimo, Harmony,
> >> ServiceMix, Tuscany, Yoko and Apache Web Services communities, and to
> >> build a strong vendor-neutral community that will outlast any one
> >> person's or company's participation.
> >>
> >> == Meritocracy ==
> >> The Codehaus Xfire and ObjectWeb Celtix projects have fostered a
> >> development community based around meritocracy. Many of the
> >> committers already work on other Apache projects and understand the
> >> Apache way. The individuals understand that they are responsible for
> >> the code, and that the community around the project will define the
> >> direction.
> >>
> >> == Community ==
> >> The CeltiXfire Community will bring together two already successful
> >> communities - Xfire and Celtix. Both projects have active users and
> >> contributors on the mailing lists.
> >>
> >> == Core Developers ==
> >> The CeltiXfire project's initial committers include a diverse set of
> >> individuals. Some of the individuals are employed by Envoi Solutions,
> >> IONA, BEA, LogicBlaze and Red Hat, and some are not funded by any
> >> particular employer.
> >>
> >> == Alignment ==
> >> CeltiXfire currently uses and integrates with many Apache projects
> >> but does not have hard dependencies on these (in alphabetical order):
> >>  * ActiveMQ is used as the default JMS implementation.
> >>  * Continuum: Apache Continuum currently uses XFire for its SOAP
> >> integration.
> >>  * Harmony: Harmony is implementing Java 5.0 and requires support for
> >> many of the JSR that CeltiXfire will provide.
> >>  * Jakarta Commons HttpClient can be used for the HTTP client transport.
> >>  * Geronimo: Celtix already provides Geronimo integration. CeltiXfire
> >> will continue this effort and will be made available so that Geronimo
> >> could use CeltiXfire as its JAX-WS implementation for JEE.
> >>  * ServiceMix: Codehaus XFire is currently used within ServiceMix to
> >> provide web service integration. Celtix provides its own JBI
> >> integration for ServiceMix as well, although JBI is an option and not
> >> a requirement for Celtix implementation.
> >>  * Maven 2: Celtix and Xfire already provide Maven 2 plug-ins for
> >> invoking the Celtix and Xfire tooling.
> >>  * Tuscany: Celtix is already integrated with Tuscany.
> >>  * WSS4J: CeltiXfire uses Apache WSS4J for WS-Security support.
> >>  * XMLBeans is currently used as one of the data-binding options for
> >> CeltiXfire.
> >>  * XmlSchema: CeltiXfire uses XmlSchema for many schema related
> >> functions internally.
> >>  * Yoko: Celtix is already integrated with Yoko to provide support
> >> for exposing CORBA services as web services.
> >>
> >> We are currently evaluating the use of other Apache projects as well
> >> like Woden, Neethi and JaxMe.
> >>
> >> == Avoiding the Warning Signs ==
> >>
> >> === Orphaned products ===
> >> CeltiXfire is a merging of two successful open source projects,
> >> ObjectWeb Celtix and Codehaus Xfire. Both have active communities and
> >> developers. CeltiXfire provides support for some important
> >> specifications to Java community, we expect that this project will
> >> continue to grow and develop within its own community, and be
> >> embraced by many other open source projects as well.
> >>
> >> === Inexperience with open source ===
> >> The authors of the existing code have extensive experience with open
> >> source already.  The initial list of committers includes 9 Apache
> >> Committers.  They are involved in:
> >>  * Apache Continuum
> >>  * Apache Geronimo
> >>  * Apache ServiceMix
> >>  * Apache Tuscany
> >>  * Apache Yoko
> >>
> >> === Homogeneous developers ===
> >> The project's initial committers include individuals that are
> >> employed by a diverse set of companies, including Envoi Solutions,
> >> IONA, LogicBlaze, BEA and Red Hat.  About 2/3 of the initial
> >> committers are employed by IONA.  Additionally the project has
> >> several committers whose work is not funded by any particular employer.
> >>
> >> === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
> >> Many of the developers are salaried, but they are spread out over
> >> several organizations. Several other developers are contributing to
> >> this project without any connection to an employer.
> >>
> >> === No ties to other Apache products ===
> >> Both ObjectWeb Celtix and Codehaus Xfire currently use many Apache
> >> projects. These have been outlined in the "alignment" section.
> >>
> >> === A fascination with the Apache brand ===
> >> While we expect the Apache brand may help attract more contributors,
> >> our interests in starting this project is based on the factors
> >> mentioned in the Rationale section.  However, we will be sensitive to
> >> inadvertent abuse of the Apache brand and will work with the
> >> Incubator PMC and the PRC to ensure the brand policies are respected.
> >>
> >> === Scope of Subprojects ===
> >> No subprojects proposed.
> >>
> >> == Initial Source ==
> >> The Celtix codebase is owned by IONA. It is currently available under
> >> both EPL and LGPL licenses (http://celtix.objectweb.org). The
> >> applicable code will be relicensed under the Apache License 2.0. The
> >> Codehaus Xfire codebase is owned by Envoi Solutions LLC and is
> >> available under an MIT license (http://xfire.codehaus.org). The
> >> applicable code will be relicensed under the Apache Software License
> >> 2.0. The dependencies all have Apache compatible licenses. These
> >> include BSD, CDDL, CPL, MPL and MIT licensed dependencies.
> >>
> >> == ASF Resources to be Created ==
> >>  * Mailing lists
> >>    * cxf-dev
> >>    * cxf-user
> >>    * cxf-commits
> >>    * cxf-ppmc
> >>  * SVN Repository https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/cxf
> >>  * JIRA CeltiXfire (CeltiXfire)
> >>  * Official Build Systems
> >>
> >> == Initial Committers ==
> >>  * Adi Sakala
> >>  * Dan Diephouse
> >>  * Guillaume Nodet
> >>  * James Strachan
> >>  * David Blevins
> >>  * Peter Royal
> >>  * Daniel Kulp
> >>  * Balaji Ravi
> >>  * Conrad O'Dea
> >>  * Hani Suileman
> >>  * Mika Goekel
> >>  * Adam Kramer
> >>  * Tomek Sztelak
> >>  * Stuart Edmondston
> >>  * Bozhong Lin
> >>  * Jervis Liu
> >>  * Julian Squires
> >>  * James Mao
> >>  * Jim Ma
> >>  * Freeman Fang
> >>  * Tom Li
> >>  * Willem Jiang
> >>  * Andrea Smyth
> >>  * Eoghan Glynn
> >>  * Debbie Moynihan
> >>  * Ajay Paibir
> >>  * Ulhas Bhole
> >>  * Sean O'Callaghan
> >>  * Peter Jones
> >>  * Eric Johnson
> >>  * Brian Zotter
> >>  * Mark Little
> >>
> >> == Sponsor ==
> >> We kindly request the Incubator PMC to accept sponsorship for this
> >> proposal.
> >>
> >> == Champion ==
> >> Jason Van Zyl
> >>
> >> == Mentors ==
> >>  * Jason Van Zyl
> >>  * Jim Jagielski
> >>  * James Strachan
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Diephouse
> Envoi Solutions
> http://envoisolutions.com
> http://netzooid.com/blog
>
>
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>


-- 
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/

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