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Message-ID: <fbdc6a970602030621u5c894736od232b0e8928a2fd1@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:21:47 +0000
From: Matthieu Riou <matthieu.riou@gmail.com>
Reply-To: matthieu.riou@gmail.com
To: general@incubator.apache.org, dims@apache.org
Subject: Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a business process engine into the
 ServiceMix project
In-Reply-To: <19e0530f0602030607r444f8897i899e36e6094c71db@mail.gmail.com>
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References: <9483C48B-70D6-4C35-899A-77216E576BA1@gmail.com>
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	 <C1B58C93-6315-4A38-9994-544DD0C6AE27@gmail.com>
	 <43E33F9C.80002@Golux.Com>
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	 <19e0530f0602030502s4ee1507ob38f40e5daaa7881@mail.gmail.com>
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	 <19e0530f0602030607r444f8897i899e36e6094c71db@mail.gmail.com>

Actually I'm a bit surprised by the proposal of making the BPEL engine
part of ServiceMix as well. ESBs and orchestration engines work pretty
well with each other, that's agreed, but so do Tomcat and Struts.

I'm working on Agila BPEL and I agree that the Agila community isn't
the most active around here. So getting some fresh blood and maybe
fresh code as well is a good thing (the most important being new
contributors). But I can't see any reason for having 2 BPEL servers
here in 2 separate projects. I don't have anything against creating a
new separate project and maybe take Agila BPEL into it (if there is
something to take given the new contribution). But having a whole new
BPEL engine getting in under the ServiceMix hat sounds a bit like a
Trojan horse.

Cheers,

Matthieu.

>Why can't you treat an orchestration engine like a component like
theway you treat Axis or XFire? Why does the code have to live
withinServiceMix? Lot of us want a BPEL engine, we don't want a
JBIcontainer. The code coming in does exactly that, it is a BPEL
engineand has no relation to JBI or Java for that matter. Why can't
you havea separate project for BPEL and add glue code as a JBI
componentEXACTLY the way you work with other projects like
XFire?Seriously James I've never seen anyone disagree (in any
effectivemanner) with you on the list(s). Why is that? Is it because
alldecisions happen off-list and all that happens here is the
love-festas Sanjiva described? Community is not about borg-like ok-ing
ofproposals.We seem to agree on the ends but not on the means. You
like a verygood integration with a BPEL engine for ServiceMix. I like
a very goodBPEL engine for its own sake. Am sure we can find people on
both sidesand some who may like both objectives.Why can't we agree to
make it work as a separate entity? If not atleast tell us what your
*shopping list* contains as to what other JBIcomponents you are going
to bring in by the time incubation is over?thanks,dimsOn 2/3/06, James
Strachan <james.strachan@gmail.com> wrote:- Show quoted text -> On 3
Feb 2006, at 13:02, Davanum Srinivas wrote:> > James,> >> > There are
2 problems:> > - As a Geronimo PMC member i feel a BPEL implemenation
is out-of-scope> > of what i voted for when i +1'ed incubation for
ServiceMix.>> The proposal for ServiceMix clearly says...>
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ServiceMixProposal>> its a JBI
container and component suite. An orchestration engine is a> JBI
component so I see this as perfectly within scope. In your vote> you
never enumerated what JBI components the ServiceMix project could> and
could not develop. Could you maybe give us a list now of what>
components you did vote for?>>> > I don't> > like what's happening and
the way you are doing it.>> Sorry about that, we're trying to fix
it>>> > - Secondly, there just isnt enough information to make a
decision one> > way or another. A proposal would clear up things like
what the> > "supposed" community thinks about a road map for the
future say "BPEL> > 2.0"> >> > So, bottom line, Please draw up a new
proposal for a separate project.>> So here's the thing; no-one
involved (the folks donating the code and> the committers on the
ServiceMix project) want a new project. We all> want to work in the
single JBI project, ServiceMix where the JBI> container and JBI
components live and are developed, documented and> tested together. We
want a single, strong community around JBI.>> James> ------->
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/>>>
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general-help@incubator.apache.org>>--Davanum Srinivas :
http://wso2.com/blogs/-----------------------------------------------------=
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