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From: Dain Sundstrom <dain@iq80.com>
Subject: Re: BPEL contribution from Sybase
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:56:49 -0800
To: general@incubator.apache.org

On Feb 13, 2006, at 5:34 PM, Greg Stein wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 12:42:58PM -0800, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>> ...
>> Sybase wants to donate to the service-mix community and the
>> ServiceMix community wants to work with the code.  Any contributor
>
> It should be donate to APACHE. The various people can come to it.

I don't think anyone has said that this isn't a donation to apache.   
Every donation I have seen to apache, has either come to a PMC and is  
sponsored as a IP donation or incubated sub project, or comes  
directly to the incubator without a sponsoring PMC and must find one  
(which can be the incubator PMC).  This is exactly what is happening  
here with the Geronimo PMC.

> To be frank, some communities can bias against newcomers. That isn't
> right for the ASF, and it *absolutely* is not write for podling
> communities within the Incubator.

Woha... There is no one saying the service mix community is biased  
against new comers.  I think it is the exact opposite.  They are very  
welcoming and I think this is what excited them to donate the code.

> This doesn't apply to just BPEL. I had the same reaction to the recent
> Ajax proposals. "oh, sure, Dojo can come and join this new community."
> Right. They'll feel like outsiders right from the start. "Euh. We have
> some code? Yah, I know you have some, but will you look at ours?" Bah.

I think that is a different case.  In that case we are talking about  
two competing communities.  In this case, we have a donator and a  
community that *want* to work together.

> This isn't about control, this is about inclusivity. Targeting one
> group of folks ("... to the service-mix community ...") over another
> is exclusion, not inclusion.

I disagree.  That is like saying any contributor is exclusive because  
they committ code to only one or two projects.  Sybase has some code  
that want to integrate into the service mix code base because they  
like the project and the community and want to work collaborate with  
them.  They could have quietly showed up an built a new orchestration  
engine in service mix, but instead they are offering some existing  
code to start with.  What's the big deal?

-dain

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