Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org
Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy)
Message-ID: <43E3D677.10205@toolazydogs.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:17:27 -0800
From: "Alan D. Cabrera" <list@toolazydogs.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Let's rewind!!! (Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a business process
 engine into the ServiceMix project)
References: <de9130c00602031313n32d2df43h24b161a52177bfa@mail.gmail.com>
 <19e0530f0602031352o5dad91cfk8814b6a41a329b2d@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <19e0530f0602031352o5dad91cfk8814b6a41a329b2d@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------010701000201030505060804"

--------------010701000201030505060804
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Are there risks to making this a TLP, i.e. do we know that there will be 
enough traction to get it out of the incubator on its own?   Wouldn't it 
make sense to incubate it in an existing project and if the community 
grows, graduated it to a TLP?  I think that we've seen many TLP projects 
struggle to get out incubation and sub-projects grow into TLPs.

If it goes into Geronimo, is there sufficient Geronimo membership from 
the Axis group to ensure broad adoption?  If not, can they be easily added?


Regards,
Alan


On 2/3/2006 1:52 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote:

>I was determined to stay of this, but alas! i could resist asking this:
>
>Would you be ok to having a stand alone project with committers from
>servicemix, your team, people from other backgrounds (could be
>existing ws committers) working on this code base, bring it up to say
>BPEL 2.0 from BPEL1.1, upgrade it to say Axis2 from Axis 1.3
>etc.etc...OR are u insisting that this code has to go into servicemix
>and nowhere else...
>
>If it is the latter, why? If it is the former, why is there so much resistance?
>
>As they say, i'll take your answers off the air.
>
>thanks,
>dims
>
>On 2/3/06, Bill Flood <bill.f.flood@gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Dims, I'll take Cory off the hook since he was acting in good faith on
>>behalf of Sybase :-).
>>
>>As we are learning, there are a variety of ways to work within the Apache
>>process as long as the community is supportive.  From the Sybase
>>perspective, we are interested in working with a vibrant community in a
>>meaningful way that balances the needs of the community with that of our
>>own.
>>
>>when we first started thinking about the open source path, we looked at
>>Agila and communicated with the developers.  While the Agila developers were
>>quite helpful, the project was not open to our contribution and our
>>assessment was that their existing code line would take substantial work to
>>bring it up to where we thought we already were.
>>
>>When we looked at ServiceMix, we found a mature community that not only
>>appeared open to a contribution such as ours but one which would help us
>>establish a good affinity with the ESB.  The Sybase folks working on this
>>code line will continue to vigorously support the orchestration component
>>and provide help in adjacent areas related to SCA.
>>
>>At this point, we feel comfortable in our contribution to the ServiceMix
>>project based on the positive uptake.  Under the rules of meritocracy, we
>>will work to ensure that the interfaces remain clean and the build granular
>>enough to be reused and hope to work with you in the future.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Bill
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>> -------Original Message-------
>>> From: Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com >
>>> Subject: Re: Let's rewind!!! (Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a business
>>>      
>>>
>>process engine into the ServiceMix project)
>>    
>>
>>> Sent: 02 Feb '06 21:12
>>>
>>> Cory,
>>>
>>> Could you please get James' help and draft a complete proposal?
>>>
>>> Please see
>>>      
>>>
>>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=incubator+proposal+site%3Awiki.apache.org&btnG=Search
>>    
>>
>>> for a list of proposals, their format and their content.
>>>
>>> Once the proposal is ready, please post it to general@incubator. Also,
>>> please take a peek at the documentation on the
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ site especially w.r.t to the incubation
>>> process, what to expect and steps involved.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On 2/2/06, cory < cory.harper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > BPEL 1.1 is supported.  The code works with Axis 1.3.
>>> >
>>> > Sybase wants this code to be successful within the community and is
>>> > going to work to support it.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> >
>>> > -cory
>>> >
>>> > On 2/2/06, Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > Folks,
>>> > >
>>> > > There is no proposal, there is just a zip, unless someone is a
>>> > > clairvoyant, we can't figure out things like. *PLEASE* CC
>>> > > general@incubator.
>>> > >
>>> > > - Which specific version of the spec is implemented?
>>> > > - Where are the list of known issues?
>>> > > - Where is the TODO list?
>>> > > - Why is Axis version 1.2 RC1 (and not even Axis 1.2 final even if we
>>> > > forget that the current version is Axis 1.3)
>>> > > - Is there any relation to workflow?
>>> > > - Is there no opportunity for interaction with our Existing
>>>      
>>>
>>incubation
>>    
>>
>>> > > project Agila?
>>> > > - Are there people from sybase who will be working?
>>> > > - Geronimo is becoming an umbrella rapidly and now ServiceMix wants
>>>      
>>>
>>to
>>    
>>
>>> > > be one too?
>>> > > - Why are people talking as though the code is FINAL
>>> > >   (Quoting greg - "there is no need to develope a community around
>>>      
>>>
>>this code")
>>    
>>
>>> > >   (Quoting Rob - "If you've looked at the proposed donated code, this
>>>      
>>>
>>> > > BPEL engine is complete, I can't see any sense in combining it with
>>> > > something else ?" )
>>> > > - Do *ANY* of the existing servicemix committers know this code
>>>      
>>>
>>inside out?
>>    
>>
>>> > > - If people are not going to touch this contrib code with a barge
>>>      
>>>
>>pole
>>    
>>
>>> > > then why should it be accepted?
>>> > >
>>> > > thanks,
>>> > > dims
>>> > >
>>> > > On 2/2/06, James Strachan <james.strachan@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > > We have received the generous donation of a complete and working
>>>      
>>>
>>BPE
>>    
>>
>>> > > > engine to the ServiceMix project...
>>> > > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/geronimo-servicemix-dev/
>>> > > > 200602.mbox/%
>>> > > > 3cf94cbdb00602011120t68cfb561necc044dbc488645a@mail.gmail.com%3e
>>> > > >
>>> > > > the contributor has offered to donate to Apache & complete the
>>> > > > necessary software grants & IP clearance and to work with us on
>>> > > > integrating it into ServiceMix.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > For those of you maybe not aware; ServiceMIx is an ESB project
>>> > > > defined around JBI (JSR 208) the JCP standard API to integration
>>> > > > components along with being the standard container model for a BPE.
>>>      
>>>
>>> > > > ServiceMix already has the JBI container and has a suite of JBI
>>> > > > integration components already for smart routing, transformation,
>>> > > > rules, scripting, auditing etc...
>>> > > > http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/Components
>>> > > >
>>> > > > So it makes complete sense to add a BPE to that component suite.
>>>      
>>>
>>Note
>>    
>>
>>> > > > that since ServiceMix already has integration components to Apache
>>> > > > Axis and Apache Tuscany, the integration of the BPE with ServiceMix
>>>      
>>>
>>> > > > should benefit those projects too (with Apache Synapse possibly too
>>> > > > via the Axis integration - though we need to work on that one a
>>>      
>>>
>>bit).
>>    
>>
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Also having a BPE fully integrated into Geronimo via the JBI
>>> > > > container would mean that we could start to orchestrate pretty much
>>> > > > everything in the Geronimo stack! I'm certainly very excited by
>>>      
>>>
>>this
>>    
>>
>>> > > > move...
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > [ ] +1 accept the donation into the ServiceMix incubator project
>>> > > > [ ] 0  don't mind either way
>>> > > > [ ] -1 I object because: .......
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Here's my +1
>>> > > >
>>> > > > James
>>> > > > -------
>>> > > > http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>--
>Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>  
>


--------------010701000201030505060804--