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From Dain Sundstrom <>
Subject Re: BPEL contribution from Sybase
Date Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:42:58 GMT
I think ServiceMix is the perfect home for a BPEL engine.  Every JBI  
implementation that I am aware of has and integrated orchestration  
engine exposed via the BPEL specification.  I am not worried about  
"barriers" to any committers,  "accidental too-tight binding" or  
"UNrelated" mail on mailing lists.  All of these issues are worked  
out every day on mailing lists at Apache. I am much more worried  
about this donation falling into Apache politics that result in a  
sausage project that no one wants to eat.

Sybase wants to donate to the service-mix community and the  
ServiceMix community wants to work with the code.  Any contributor  
will be welcomed by the ServiceMix community (as required by the  
apache way), and *if* a large community develops that wants to split  
off later they can (as is allowed by the apache process).  Right now,  
I don't see this large community; all I do see is a few very grumpy  
individuals.  If the webservice project really really want to control  
this code, they can always fork it (as is allowed by the apache  

So: My recommendation is that the donation be accepted directly into  
ServiceMix and we all move on to more important issues.


On Feb 13, 2006, at 12:21 PM, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:

> Hash: SHA1
> After re-reading all the discussion threads and getting
> some technology education from people kind enough not to
> bash me on the bonce, my strong recommendation is that
> the Sybase contribution be made as a new podling proposal
> to the incubator.
> That's after also considering the following:
> 1. The full expanded name of BPEL is 'Business Process
>    Execution Language for Web Services;'
> 2. We have a TLP devoted to Web Services; and
> 3. A BPEL engine would be a component useful to
>    a broader range of projects that just Geronimo.
> It just doesn't make sense to me to embed this into
> ServiceMix, which is intended to be embedded into the
> Geronimo project.
> The issues about who wants to work on it and their
> current distribution through ASF projects (namely,
> the claim that most of them are already working on
> the ServiceMix package) I don't see as being particularly
> relevant.  Having the BPEL effort outside of ServiceMix
> is a better solution, IMHO, because
> 1. There's no barrier to ServiceMix people working on
>    it;
> 2. There's less chance of accidental too-tight binding
>    to the ServiceMix/Geronimo packages;
> 3. People working on it will see just messages relating
>    to it, and not a bunch of UNrelated mail as well.
> That last one is pretty important, I think.  I suspect
> that people from outside ServiceMix would be a bit
> daunted or put off at having to deal with the flux of
> ServiceMix-specific mail in order to see the BPEL-related
> messages which might be their sole interest.
> So: My recommendation is that a new proposal be drafted,
> and Sybase's BPEL contribution be subnmitted to the
> incubator as a new standalone podling.
> - --
> #ken	P-)}
> Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Ken.Coar.Org/
> Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/
> "Millennium hand and shrimp!"
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird -
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> a1xVRt2c34g=
> =ge/u

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