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From Dain Sundstrom <>
Subject Re: BPEL contribution from Sybase
Date Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:19:56 GMT
After a quick chat with Dims, I think I need to make a quick  
correction to this email....

On Feb 13, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

> I think ServiceMix is the perfect home for a BPEL engine.  Every  
> JBI implementation that I am aware of has and integrated  
> orchestration engine exposed via the BPEL specification.  I am not  
> worried about "barriers" to any committers,  "accidental too-tight  
> binding" or "UNrelated" mail on mailing lists.  All of these issues  
> are worked out every day on mailing lists at Apache. I am much more  
> worried about this donation falling into Apache politics that  
> result in a sausage project that no one wants to eat.
> Sybase wants to donate to the service-mix community and the  
> ServiceMix community wants to work with the code.  Any contributor  
> will be welcomed by the ServiceMix community (as required by the  
> apache way), and *if* a large community develops that wants to  
> split off later they can (as is allowed by the apache process).   
> Right now, I don't see this large community; all I do see is a few  
> very grumpy individuals.  If the webservice project really really  
> want to control this code, they can always fork it (as is allowed  
> by the apache process).

I picked up on Ken's comments about having "a TLP devoted to Web  
Services" and I should not have picked on the Web Services, instead I  
think my point is made more clear by replacing the last line with:

    If any project inside or outside of Apache wants their own copy  
of this code to develop they can always fork the code (as is allowed  
by any open source project).

I apologies to Dims and the Web Services project for dragging them  
back into this debate as they have clearly tried to remove themselves.



> So: My recommendation is that the donation be accepted directly  
> into ServiceMix and we all move on to more important issues.
> -dain
> On Feb 13, 2006, at 12:21 PM, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
>> Hash: SHA1
>> After re-reading all the discussion threads and getting
>> some technology education from people kind enough not to
>> bash me on the bonce, my strong recommendation is that
>> the Sybase contribution be made as a new podling proposal
>> to the incubator.
>> That's after also considering the following:
>> 1. The full expanded name of BPEL is 'Business Process
>>    Execution Language for Web Services;'
>> 2. We have a TLP devoted to Web Services; and
>> 3. A BPEL engine would be a component useful to
>>    a broader range of projects that just Geronimo.
>> It just doesn't make sense to me to embed this into
>> ServiceMix, which is intended to be embedded into the
>> Geronimo project.
>> The issues about who wants to work on it and their
>> current distribution through ASF projects (namely,
>> the claim that most of them are already working on
>> the ServiceMix package) I don't see as being particularly
>> relevant.  Having the BPEL effort outside of ServiceMix
>> is a better solution, IMHO, because
>> 1. There's no barrier to ServiceMix people working on
>>    it;
>> 2. There's less chance of accidental too-tight binding
>>    to the ServiceMix/Geronimo packages;
>> 3. People working on it will see just messages relating
>>    to it, and not a bunch of UNrelated mail as well.
>> That last one is pretty important, I think.  I suspect
>> that people from outside ServiceMix would be a bit
>> daunted or put off at having to deal with the flux of
>> ServiceMix-specific mail in order to see the BPEL-related
>> messages which might be their sole interest.
>> So: My recommendation is that a new proposal be drafted,
>> and Sybase's BPEL contribution be subnmitted to the
>> incubator as a new standalone podling.
>> - --
>> #ken	P-)}
>> Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Ken.Coar.Org/
>> Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/
>> "Millennium hand and shrimp!"
>> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird -
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>> =ge/u
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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