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From Rodent of Unusual Size <Ken.C...@Golux.Com>
Subject Re: BPEL contribution from Sybase
Date Tue, 14 Feb 2006 02:43:21 GMT
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Dain Sundstrom wrote:
> 
> I think ServiceMix is the perfect home for a BPEL engine.  Every JBI 
> implementation that I am aware of has and integrated orchestration 
> engine exposed via the BPEL specification.  I am not worried about 
> "barriers" to any committers,  "accidental too-tight binding" or 
> "UNrelated" mail on mailing lists.  All of these issues are worked 
> out every day on mailing lists at Apache. I am much more worried 
> about this donation falling into Apache politics that result in a 
> sausage project that no one wants to eat.

IMHO, it's being *pushed* into 'Apache politics.'

If it's worthwhile, it will survive wherever it goes.  Coming
in as a standalone podling will be a measure of its worth.
If it can't get enough momentum that way, why do you think it
would get any more as part of ServiceMix?  If it wouldn't get
the momentum standalone, then I think it's much more likely
that being embedded into ServiceMix would result in a bolus
of legacy code.  An inedible and unremovable sausage in a
larger sandwich.

> Sybase wants to donate to the service-mix community

In other words, they *don't* want to contribute it to Apache.
They want it to go into a specific and particular niche *at*
Apache.  Why the specificity?  Why does Sybase care where
it goes?

> and the ServiceMix community wants to work with the code.

A BPEL podling would not be an obstacle to that.

> Any contributor will be welcomed by the ServiceMix community

But if BPEL is all they wanted to work on, they wouldn't
be *part* of the ServiceMix community.

> Right now, I don't see this large community; all I do see is a few 
> very grumpy individuals.

Such as whom?  *I* see an enormous pressure to bring
this into ServiceMix, and a good bit of grumpiness that
anyone would have the temerity to opine that there might
be a better approach.

Since you were replying to my message, which recommended
against bringing BPEL into ServiceMix, I infer that I'm
one of these 'very grumpy individuals.'  Why am I grumpy?
What am I grumpy about?  You said it, so please tell me
what you meant.

> If the webservice project really really want to control this code,

Who said anything about WS 'controlling' the code?  I
commented that 'Web Services' is part of BPEL's name,
and we already have a bunch of people and an effort
dedicated to that specific topic.  I don't see 'J2EE'
in the BPEL name; I *do* see 'Web Services.'

> So: My recommendation is that the donation be accepted directly into 
> ServiceMix and we all move on to more important issues.

The amount of opinion diversity on this issue makes it
clear that it's quite important enough on its own, and
in fact is *not* a simple thing to 'just do.'
- --
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Ken.Coar.Org/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"


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