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From Bill Dudney <>
Subject Re: Cayenne ASF Proposal
Date Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:30:09 GMT
Hi Tom,

Can we add your name to the proposal then as mentor :-)

Thanks again for the comments.


Bill Dudney
MyFaces -

On Feb 28, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Thomas Dudziak wrote:

> On 3/1/06, robert burrell donkin <>  
> wrote:
>>> Can't compare us with Torque, as I am unfamiliar with it. From  
>>> what I
>>> know we are closer to OJB and JDO rather than Torque (but I can be
>>> wrong on that). I don't see a conflict with either of the three. We
>>> just provide another way of doing object persistence, kind of like
>>> Struts, Tapestry and MyFaces provide three different ways to
>>> implement Java web layer.
>> the comments over in DBland seem quite positive:
> Though it wasn't posted to the PMC list (I only saw it because of the
> announcement on the incubator list).
> But yes, personally I'm in favor of sponsoring it by the DB PMC (I'd
> even mentor it if that is possible for non-members).
>> We viewed DB as one logical possibility (so we first presented a
>>> proposal to DB PMC). But there are arguments from both Cayenne  
>>> and DB
>>> communities that make us think that TLP is a better option:
>>> 1. Umbrella argument [that I don't fully understand; I guess it has
>>> something to do with the history of other TLPs?]
>> umbrella projects don't scale: communities fragment. too many  
>> layers, too
>> many rules required, too much management requried, not enough  
>> coding...
> In my understanding this happens when the projects do not overlap,
> i.e. have not really much in common (e.g. the Jakarta problem).
> However in the case of DB, having Cayenne in DB IMO would actually
> foster cooperation. While I don't know Cayenne well, I still think
> there is a some overlap to existing Apache projects (not only DB ones)
> which provides opportunities (sharing knowledge or even code) that we
> should use. And this is probably easier under the DB 'umbrella' than
> with multiple different TLPs (e.g. like with iBatis).
> But as Jim said, this discussion could easily be resumed when Cayenne
> graduates from incubation.
> Tom
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