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From "Thomas Dudziak" <>
Subject Re: Cayenne ASF Proposal
Date Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:02:56 GMT
On 3/1/06, robert burrell donkin <> wrote:

> > Can't compare us with Torque, as I am unfamiliar with it. From what I
> > know we are closer to OJB and JDO rather than Torque (but I can be
> > wrong on that). I don't see a conflict with either of the three. We
> > just provide another way of doing object persistence, kind of like
> > Struts, Tapestry and MyFaces provide three different ways to
> > implement Java web layer.
> the comments over in DBland seem quite positive:

Though it wasn't posted to the PMC list (I only saw it because of the
announcement on the incubator list).
But yes, personally I'm in favor of sponsoring it by the DB PMC (I'd
even mentor it if that is possible for non-members).

> We viewed DB as one logical possibility (so we first presented a
> > proposal to DB PMC). But there are arguments from both Cayenne and DB
> > communities that make us think that TLP is a better option:
> >
> > 1. Umbrella argument [that I don't fully understand; I guess it has
> > something to do with the history of other TLPs?]
> umbrella projects don't scale: communities fragment. too many layers, too
> many rules required, too much management requried, not enough coding...

In my understanding this happens when the projects do not overlap,
i.e. have not really much in common (e.g. the Jakarta problem).
However in the case of DB, having Cayenne in DB IMO would actually
foster cooperation. While I don't know Cayenne well, I still think
there is a some overlap to existing Apache projects (not only DB ones)
which provides opportunities (sharing knowledge or even code) that we
should use. And this is probably easier under the DB 'umbrella' than
with multiple different TLPs (e.g. like with iBatis).

But as Jim said, this discussion could easily be resumed when Cayenne
graduates from incubation.


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