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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: Ode Proposal (Sybase BPEL engine donation))
Date Thu, 16 Feb 2006 00:11:28 GMT
[trimmed individuals and pmc's from the cc: list]

On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 03:22:23PM -0800, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2006, at 3:09 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >Sanjiva,
> >
> >>- Given the, um, strong feelings expressed by so many people about  
> >>this project, how about if we get the Incubator PMC to sponsor this  
> >>poddling?
> >
> >Agreed.  That is what I said to the Geronimo PMC, as well.  The  
> >Incubator PMC will sponsor the project.
> I know it doesn't mean much, but I personally would like to see this  
> as a Geronimo sponsored project.  We are the ones that have taken the  
> licks over this for the past 2 weeks and would really like to work to  
> carry this through the full process.
> So to flip things around on you...
>   There is no need for the Incubator PMC to sponsor.  The Geronimo  
> PMC will sponsor the project.
> Thanks for your understanding.

A number of folks here in the Incubator believe it is best to
establish a community with no prior ties, and have repeated that on a
number of occasions (including Sanjiva's and Noel's comments today).
The general belief is that this will create a better community around
the ASF's BPEL work.

Part of the problem that I'm seeing is you use of "we" in your
message. Who is "we"? And that leads to, who is "not we"? Why is there
a partition? I believe this is one of the primary issues that is being
dealt with right now, Dain. You are dividing BPEL workers into a "we"
and "others" camp.

Or, let's just say that was a random term to refer to the Geronimo
project and you're not really seeing two groups. i.e. not fair of me
to assign that way of thinking to you. Okay. So moving on: why is it
important for this to be Geronimo sponsored? Why? Seriously. WTF does
it matter?

We've already said the IP clearance paperwork is the same no matter
what. Great. Get that done and start working. When BPEL is ready to
graduate, then we look at where it goes. Quite possibly Geronimo. But
what does it matter that Geronimo is the sponsor? Why are you so keyed
in on that?

I can clearly see benefits with "absence of ties". I don't see the
benefit of Geronimo sponsoring that you're seeing. And without that
understanding, then I get to make up crazy reasons :-P


Greg Stein,

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