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From Davanum Srinivas <dava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Let's rewind!!! (Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a business process engine into the ServiceMix project)
Date Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:40:40 GMT
FYI, I sent an offline reply to Bill.

On 2/14/06, Bill Flood <bill.f.flood@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dims,
>
> We heard your plea and have moved the proposal through the incubator as you
> suggested.  At this point, we are looking for supporters.  From the energy
> you put behind your posting, we are all hoping you will also be committed to
> helping us drive this forward.
>
> We are also reaching out to the Agila folks and anyone else who wishes to
> get involved.
>
>  http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OdeProposal
>
> Best,
>
> Bill
>
>
> On 2/3/06, Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
> > *IF* that is the objective, then the correct way is to follow the
> > Apache Incubator process(es) draw up a proposal, name *ALL* the
> > committers in servicemix who are willing to contribute, add your own
> > team names, post the proposal to the general@incubator mailing list.
> > Ask for more people to join, Proactively invite other folks (from
> > Apache and outside Apache as well) to join, seek active support of
> > exising Apache folks who may be interested in joining a BPEL
> > implementation. For god's sake just check the list of people who wrote
> > the original BPEL spec and compare it to the people who work at Apache
> > on web services related stuff and u will see what i mean.
> >
> > thanks,
> > dims
> >
> > On 2/3/06, Bill Flood < bill.f.flood@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The dependency on Axis should be removed.  It's the result of a couple
> lines
> > > of dead code.  BPEL 2.0 is an objective.
> > >
> > > The discussion over where the contribution lands is one of the most
> > > important aspects of the process.  Too narrow a scope and the project
> could
> > > fail to get critical mass, too wide and folks are worried about the
> kitchen
> > > sink.  If we can find the right balance we will be well served.
> > >
> > > We are not hardwired to any one particular approach and welcome
> involvement
> > > from all corners.  The ServiceMix approach has a few positives - by in
> large
> > > they seem to like our contribution and they have critical mass.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/3/06, Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was determined to stay of this, but alas! i could resist asking
> this:
> > > >
> > > > Would you be ok to having a stand alone project with committers from
> > > > servicemix, your team, people from other backgrounds (could be
> > > > existing ws committers) working on this code base, bring it up to say
> > > > BPEL 2.0 from BPEL1.1, upgrade it to say Axis2 from Axis 1.3
> > > > etc.etc...OR are u insisting that this code has to go into servicemix
> > > > and nowhere else...
> > > >
> > > > If it is the latter, why? If it is the former, why is there so much
> > > resistance?
> > > >
> > > > As they say, i'll take your answers off the air.
> > > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > > dims
> > > >
> > > > On 2/3/06, Bill Flood < bill.f.flood@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Dims, I'll take Cory off the hook since he was acting in good faith
> on
> > > > > behalf of Sybase :-).
> > > > >
> > > > > As we are learning, there are a variety of ways to work within the
> > > Apache
> > > > > process as long as the community is supportive.  From the Sybase
> > > > > perspective, we are interested in working with a vibrant community
> in a
> > > > > meaningful way that balances the needs of the community with that
of
> our
> > > > > own.
> > > > >
> > > > > when we first started thinking about the open source path, we looked
> at
> > > > > Agila and communicated with the developers.  While the Agila
> developers
> > > were
> > > > > quite helpful, the project was not open to our contribution and our
> > > > > assessment was that their existing code line would take substantial
> work
> > > to
> > > > > bring it up to where we thought we already were.
> > > > >
> > > > > When we looked at ServiceMix, we found a mature community that not
> only
> > > > > appeared open to a contribution such as ours but one which would
> help us
> > > > > establish a good affinity with the ESB.  The Sybase folks working
on
> > > this
> > > > > code line will continue to vigorously support the orchestration
> > > component
> > > > > and provide help in adjacent areas related to SCA.
> > > > >
> > > > > At this point, we feel comfortable in our contribution to the
> ServiceMix
> > > > > project based on the positive uptake.  Under the rules of
> meritocracy,
> > > we
> > > > > will work to ensure that the interfaces remain clean and the build
> > > granular
> > > > > enough to be reused and hope to work with you in the future.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >  -------Original Message-------
> > > > > >  From: Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com >
> > > > > >  Subject: Re: Let's rewind!!! (Re: [VOTE] accept donation of
a
> > > business
> > > > > process engine into the ServiceMix project)
> > > > > >  Sent: 02 Feb '06 21:12
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Cory,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Could you please get James' help and draft a complete proposal?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Please see
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=incubator+proposal+site%3Awiki.apache.org&btnG=Search
> > > > > >  for a list of proposals, their format and their content.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Once the proposal is ready, please post it to general@incubator.
> > > Also,
> > > > > >  please take a peek at the documentation on the
> > > > > >  http://incubator.apache.org/ site especially w.r.t to the
> incubation
> > > > > >  process, what to expect and steps involved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  thanks,
> > > > > >  dims
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  On 2/2/06, cory < cory.harper@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >  > Hi,
> > > > > >  >
> > > > > >  > BPEL 1.1 is supported.  The code works with Axis 1.3.
> > > > > >  >
> > > > > >  > Sybase wants this code to be successful within the community
> and is
> > > > > >  > going to work to support it.
> > > > > >  >
> > > > > >  > Cheers,
> > > > > >  >
> > > > > >  > -cory
> > > > > >  >
> > > > > >  > On 2/2/06, Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com >
wrote:
> > > > > >  > > Folks,
> > > > > >  > >
> > > > > >  > > There is no proposal, there is just a zip, unless
someone is
> a
> > > > > >  > > clairvoyant, we can't figure out things like. *PLEASE*
CC
> > > > > >  > > general@incubator.
> > > > > >  > >
> > > > > >  > > - Which specific version of the spec is implemented?
> > > > > >  > > - Where are the list of known issues?
> > > > > >  > > - Where is the TODO list?
> > > > > >  > > - Why is Axis version 1.2 RC1 (and not even Axis
1.2 final
> even
> > > if we
> > > > > >  > > forget that the current version is Axis 1.3)
> > > > > >  > > - Is there any relation to workflow?
> > > > > >  > > - Is there no opportunity for interaction with our
Existing
> > > > > incubation
> > > > > >  > > project Agila?
> > > > > >  > > - Are there people from sybase who will be working?
> > > > > >  > > - Geronimo is becoming an umbrella rapidly and now
ServiceMix
> > > wants
> > > > > to
> > > > > >  > > be one too?
> > > > > >  > > - Why are people talking as though the code is FINAL
> > > > > >  > >   (Quoting greg - "there is no need to develope a
community
> > > around
> > > > > this code")
> > > > > >  > >   (Quoting Rob - "If you've looked at the proposed
donated
> code,
> > > this
> > > > >
> > > > > >  > > BPEL engine is complete, I can't see any sense in
combining
> it
> > > with
> > > > > >  > > something else ?" )
> > > > > >  > > - Do *ANY* of the existing servicemix committers
know this
> code
> > > > > inside out?
> > > > > >  > > - If people are not going to touch this contrib code
with a
> barge
> > > > > pole
> > > > > >  > > then why should it be accepted?
> > > > > >  > >
> > > > > >  > > thanks,
> > > > > >  > > dims
> > > > > >  > >
> > > > > >  > > On 2/2/06, James Strachan < james.strachan@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > >  > > > We have received the generous donation of a
complete and
> > > working
> > > > > BPE
> > > > > >  > > > engine to the ServiceMix project...
> > > > > >  > > >
> > >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/geronimo-servicemix-dev/
> > > > > >  > > > 200602.mbox/%
> > > > > >  > > >
> > >
> 3cf94cbdb00602011120t68cfb561necc044dbc488645a@mail.gmail.com
> %3e
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > > the contributor has offered to donate to Apache
& complete
> the
> > > > > >  > > > necessary software grants & IP clearance
and to work with
> us on
> > > > > >  > > > integrating it into ServiceMix.
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > > For those of you maybe not aware; ServiceMIx
is an ESB
> project
> > > > > >  > > > defined around JBI (JSR 208) the JCP standard
API to
> > > integration
> > > > > >  > > > components along with being the standard container
model
> for a
> > > BPE.
> > > > >
> > > > > >  > > > ServiceMix already has the JBI container and
has a suite of
> JBI
> > > > > >  > > > integration components already for smart routing,
> > > transformation,
> > > > > >  > > > rules, scripting, auditing etc...
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/Components
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > > So it makes complete sense to add a BPE to that
component
> > > suite.
> > > > > Note
> > > > > >  > > > that since ServiceMix already has integration
components to
> > > Apache
> > > > > >  > > > Axis and Apache Tuscany, the integration of
the BPE with
> > > ServiceMix
> > > > >
> > > > > >  > > > should benefit those projects too (with Apache
Synapse
> possibly
> > > too
> > > > > >  > > > via the Axis integration - though we need to
work on that
> one a
> > > > > bit).
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > > Also having a BPE fully integrated into Geronimo
via the
> JBI
> > > > > >  > > > container would mean that we could start to
orchestrate
> pretty
> > > much
> > > > > >  > > > everything in the Geronimo stack! I'm certainly
very
> excited by
> > > > > this
> > > > > >  > > > move...
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > > [ ] +1 accept the donation into the ServiceMix
incubator
> > > project
> > > > > >  > > > [ ] 0  don't mind either way
> > > > > >  > > > [ ] -1 I object because: .......
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > > Here's my +1
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > > James
> > > > > >  > > > -------
> > > > > >  > > > http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > >
> > > > > >  > >
> > > > > >  > > --
> > > > > >  > > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> > > > > >  > >
> > > > > >  >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  --
> > > > > >  Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> >
>
>


--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/

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