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From Davanum Srinivas <dava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Let's rewind!!! (Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a business process engine into the ServiceMix project)
Date Sat, 04 Feb 2006 00:05:44 GMT
*IF* that is the objective, then the correct way is to follow the
Apache Incubator process(es) draw up a proposal, name *ALL* the
committers in servicemix who are willing to contribute, add your own
team names, post the proposal to the general@incubator mailing list.
Ask for more people to join, Proactively invite other folks (from
Apache and outside Apache as well) to join, seek active support of
exising Apache folks who may be interested in joining a BPEL
implementation. For god's sake just check the list of people who wrote
the original BPEL spec and compare it to the people who work at Apache
on web services related stuff and u will see what i mean.

thanks,
dims

On 2/3/06, Bill Flood <bill.f.flood@gmail.com> wrote:
> The dependency on Axis should be removed.  It's the result of a couple lines
> of dead code.  BPEL 2.0 is an objective.
>
> The discussion over where the contribution lands is one of the most
> important aspects of the process.  Too narrow a scope and the project could
> fail to get critical mass, too wide and folks are worried about the kitchen
> sink.  If we can find the right balance we will be well served.
>
> We are not hardwired to any one particular approach and welcome involvement
> from all corners.  The ServiceMix approach has a few positives - by in large
> they seem to like our contribution and they have critical mass.
>
>
>
> On 2/3/06, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com > wrote:
> >
> > I was determined to stay of this, but alas! i could resist asking this:
> >
> > Would you be ok to having a stand alone project with committers from
> > servicemix, your team, people from other backgrounds (could be
> > existing ws committers) working on this code base, bring it up to say
> > BPEL 2.0 from BPEL1.1, upgrade it to say Axis2 from Axis 1.3
> > etc.etc...OR are u insisting that this code has to go into servicemix
> > and nowhere else...
> >
> > If it is the latter, why? If it is the former, why is there so much
> resistance?
> >
> > As they say, i'll take your answers off the air.
> >
> > thanks,
> > dims
> >
> > On 2/3/06, Bill Flood < bill.f.flood@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Dims, I'll take Cory off the hook since he was acting in good faith on
> > > behalf of Sybase :-).
> > >
> > > As we are learning, there are a variety of ways to work within the
> Apache
> > > process as long as the community is supportive.  From the Sybase
> > > perspective, we are interested in working with a vibrant community in a
> > > meaningful way that balances the needs of the community with that of our
> > > own.
> > >
> > > when we first started thinking about the open source path, we looked at
> > > Agila and communicated with the developers.  While the Agila developers
> were
> > > quite helpful, the project was not open to our contribution and our
> > > assessment was that their existing code line would take substantial work
> to
> > > bring it up to where we thought we already were.
> > >
> > > When we looked at ServiceMix, we found a mature community that not only
> > > appeared open to a contribution such as ours but one which would help us
> > > establish a good affinity with the ESB.  The Sybase folks working on
> this
> > > code line will continue to vigorously support the orchestration
> component
> > > and provide help in adjacent areas related to SCA.
> > >
> > > At this point, we feel comfortable in our contribution to the ServiceMix
> > > project based on the positive uptake.  Under the rules of meritocracy,
> we
> > > will work to ensure that the interfaces remain clean and the build
> granular
> > > enough to be reused and hope to work with you in the future.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > > >  -------Original Message-------
> > > >  From: Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com >
> > > >  Subject: Re: Let's rewind!!! (Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a
> business
> > > process engine into the ServiceMix project)
> > > >  Sent: 02 Feb '06 21:12
> > > >
> > > >  Cory,
> > > >
> > > >  Could you please get James' help and draft a complete proposal?
> > > >
> > > >  Please see
> > >
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=incubator+proposal+site%3Awiki.apache.org&btnG=Search
> > > >  for a list of proposals, their format and their content.
> > > >
> > > >  Once the proposal is ready, please post it to general@incubator.
> Also,
> > > >  please take a peek at the documentation on the
> > > >  http://incubator.apache.org/ site especially w.r.t to the incubation
> > > >  process, what to expect and steps involved.
> > > >
> > > >  thanks,
> > > >  dims
> > > >
> > > >  On 2/2/06, cory < cory.harper@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >  > Hi,
> > > >  >
> > > >  > BPEL 1.1 is supported.  The code works with Axis 1.3.
> > > >  >
> > > >  > Sybase wants this code to be successful within the community and
is
> > > >  > going to work to support it.
> > > >  >
> > > >  > Cheers,
> > > >  >
> > > >  > -cory
> > > >  >
> > > >  > On 2/2/06, Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com > wrote:
> > > >  > > Folks,
> > > >  > >
> > > >  > > There is no proposal, there is just a zip, unless someone is
a
> > > >  > > clairvoyant, we can't figure out things like. *PLEASE* CC
> > > >  > > general@incubator.
> > > >  > >
> > > >  > > - Which specific version of the spec is implemented?
> > > >  > > - Where are the list of known issues?
> > > >  > > - Where is the TODO list?
> > > >  > > - Why is Axis version 1.2 RC1 (and not even Axis 1.2 final
even
> if we
> > > >  > > forget that the current version is Axis 1.3)
> > > >  > > - Is there any relation to workflow?
> > > >  > > - Is there no opportunity for interaction with our Existing
> > > incubation
> > > >  > > project Agila?
> > > >  > > - Are there people from sybase who will be working?
> > > >  > > - Geronimo is becoming an umbrella rapidly and now ServiceMix
> wants
> > > to
> > > >  > > be one too?
> > > >  > > - Why are people talking as though the code is FINAL
> > > >  > >   (Quoting greg - "there is no need to develope a community
> around
> > > this code")
> > > >  > >   (Quoting Rob - "If you've looked at the proposed donated
code,
> this
> > >
> > > >  > > BPEL engine is complete, I can't see any sense in combining
it
> with
> > > >  > > something else ?" )
> > > >  > > - Do *ANY* of the existing servicemix committers know this
code
> > > inside out?
> > > >  > > - If people are not going to touch this contrib code with a
barge
> > > pole
> > > >  > > then why should it be accepted?
> > > >  > >
> > > >  > > thanks,
> > > >  > > dims
> > > >  > >
> > > >  > > On 2/2/06, James Strachan < james.strachan@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > >  > > > We have received the generous donation of a complete and
> working
> > > BPE
> > > >  > > > engine to the ServiceMix project...
> > > >  > > >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/geronimo-servicemix-dev/
> > > >  > > > 200602.mbox/%
> > > >  > > >
> 3cf94cbdb00602011120t68cfb561necc044dbc488645a@mail.gmail.com%3e
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > > > the contributor has offered to donate to Apache &
complete the
> > > >  > > > necessary software grants & IP clearance and to work
with us on
> > > >  > > > integrating it into ServiceMix.
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > > > For those of you maybe not aware; ServiceMIx is an ESB
project
> > > >  > > > defined around JBI (JSR 208) the JCP standard API to
> integration
> > > >  > > > components along with being the standard container model
for a
> BPE.
> > >
> > > >  > > > ServiceMix already has the JBI container and has a suite
of JBI
> > > >  > > > integration components already for smart routing,
> transformation,
> > > >  > > > rules, scripting, auditing etc...
> > > >  > > >
> http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/Components
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > > > So it makes complete sense to add a BPE to that component
> suite.
> > > Note
> > > >  > > > that since ServiceMix already has integration components
to
> Apache
> > > >  > > > Axis and Apache Tuscany, the integration of the BPE with
> ServiceMix
> > >
> > > >  > > > should benefit those projects too (with Apache Synapse
possibly
> too
> > > >  > > > via the Axis integration - though we need to work on that
one a
> > > bit).
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > > > Also having a BPE fully integrated into Geronimo via the
JBI
> > > >  > > > container would mean that we could start to orchestrate
pretty
> much
> > > >  > > > everything in the Geronimo stack! I'm certainly very excited
by
> > > this
> > > >  > > > move...
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > > > [ ] +1 accept the donation into the ServiceMix incubator
> project
> > > >  > > > [ ] 0  don't mind either way
> > > >  > > > [ ] -1 I object because: .......
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > > > Here's my +1
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > > > James
> > > >  > > > -------
> > > >  > > > http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > > >
> > > >  > >
> > > >  > >
> > > >  > > --
> > > >  > > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> > > >  > >
> > > >  >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  --
> > > >  Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>


--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/

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