Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 16672 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2005 18:45:42 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 30 Dec 2005 18:45:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 51414 invoked by uid 500); 30 Dec 2005 18:45:39 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 51288 invoked by uid 500); 30 Dec 2005 18:45:39 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 51277 invoked by uid 99); 30 Dec 2005 18:45:39 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:45:39 -0800 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [192.18.98.36] (HELO brmea-mail-4.sun.com) (192.18.98.36) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:45:38 -0800 Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBUIjIuf001926 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0ISB00J01Q5ON000@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Craig.Russell@Sun.COM) for general@incubator.apache.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-6-172-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.172.77]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0ISB004GGQRGSA00@mail-amer.sun.com> for general@incubator.apache.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:45:17 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:45:13 -0800 From: Craig L Russell Subject: Re: Starting a java specs project In-reply-to: <43B57A03.3040504@pobox.com> Sender: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM To: general@incubator.apache.org Message-id: <8AAC1053-ACCE-4690-A4AE-BAFEF49DAA3A@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary=Apple-Mail-208-894808813; micalg=sha1 References: <43B1681D.40201@toolazydogs.com> <31cc37360512271912l37f3438di32a95f00f71530b1@mail.gmail.com> <2A95CB31-C295-4BD3-BAF4-DC821D6D6FC1@apache.org> <200512310124.18505.niclas@hedhman.org> <43B56F10.5010208@pobox.com> <9e3862d80512300950j7f87aef1ob4e9c4a38497f1d7@mail.gmail.com> <43B57A03.3040504@pobox.com> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --Apple-Mail-208-894808813 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-207-894807585 --Apple-Mail-207-894807585 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Dec 30, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: > > > Brett Porter wrote: >> On 12/31/05, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: >>> I think it was just coming out of incubation, but yes, that's >>> something >>> we should point to somehow. >> I agree. This point actually raises something else - it would be a >> bit >> silly to have a specs project ("here are all our Java specs!") if it >> doesn't have them all ("...except this one, this one, and this one"). > > Well, we can't force anyone, and I just assume that projects will > see the utility. There's nothing really interesting about these > spec jars, so they would be just a consumer as well (with help > maintaining, I suppose). > >> Is it worth asking them to move too, and do we need to make sure they >> all agree first, or do we just agree to link out to them? > > On a website? I guess we could point to them, to try and shame > them into bringing the stuff over :) > >> I understand the earlier point that there might not be a lot of >> coding >> going on here and that might hinder building any community around it. >> However, its another excuse for a bunch of people doing Java stuff to >> get together in one place, and maybe meet a wider community of people >> at Apache. That can only be a good thing. > > The thing is, I don't think we should set any high expectations > about community, because unlike Jakarta Commons, where there was/is > active development around the projects, the spec jars are pretty > static and boring... > >>> It would be nice to have a JDO2 impl here as well... >> Getting off-topic, but does that really need to be here? Is there >> anything stopping people from getting involved in jpox, who as I >> understand it work very closely with the jdo team here and are the >> RI? > > Does it need to? only if people want it. JPOX is the RI, and I > always feel that a truly competitive impl of a spec isn't going to > be the RI. You don't want to do real extension and surrounding > innovation in an RI, I figure... I don't necessarily agree with either point. JPOX has gained a lot of credibility and good press by being the RI, and it will continue to innovate in the product space as well. The Sun-branded Java EE server is also the RI and has been for the last three releases starting with J2EE 1.3. Of course, for some, I've proved your point. ;-) Craig > > geir > >> - Brett > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org > Craig Russell Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! --Apple-Mail-207-894807585 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Dec 30, 2005, = at 10:18 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:



Brett Porter = wrote:
On 12/31/05, = Geir Magnusson Jr <geir@pobox.com> wrote:
=
I think it was just coming = out of incubation, but yes, that's something
we should point to somehow.
I agree. This point actually raises something else - = it would be a bit
silly to have a specs project = ("here are all our Java specs!") if it
doesn't = have them all ("...except this one, this one, and this one").
=

Well, we can't force anyone, and I just assume that = projects will see the utility.=A0 = There's nothing really interesting about these spec jars, so they = would be just a consumer as well (with help maintaining, I = suppose).

=
Is it worth asking them to = move too, and do we need to make sure they
all = agree first, or do we just agree to link out to them?
=

On a website?=A0= I guess we could point to them, to try and shame them into = bringing the stuff over :)

I = understand the earlier point that there might not be a lot of = coding
going on here and that might = hinder building any community around it.
However, = its another excuse for a bunch of people doing Java stuff to
get together in one place, and maybe meet a wider = community of people
at Apache. That can only be = a good thing.

The thing is, I don't think we = should set any high expectations about community, because unlike Jakarta = Commons, where there was/is active development around the projects, the = spec jars are pretty static and boring...

It would be nice to have a JDO2 = impl here as well...
Getting = off-topic, but does that really need to be here? Is there
anything stopping people from getting involved in = jpox, who as I
understand it work very closely = with the jdo team here and are the RI?

Does it = need to?=A0 only if people = want it.=A0 JPOX is the RI, = and I always feel that a truly competitive impl of a spec isn't going to = be the RI. You don't want to do real extension and surrounding = innovation in an RI,=A0 I = figure...

I don't necessarily agree with = either point. JPOX has gained a lot of credibility and good press by = being the RI, and it will continue to innovate in the product space as = well.

The = Sun-branded Java EE server is also the RI and has been for the last = three releases starting with J2EE 1.3.

Of course, for some, I've = proved your point. ;-)

Craig

geir

- = Brett
For = additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.a= pache.org

=

Craig Russell

Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo=

408 = 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com

P.S. A = good JDO? O, Gasp!


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