Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 31587 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2005 19:16:05 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 30 Dec 2005 19:16:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 93328 invoked by uid 500); 30 Dec 2005 19:16:02 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 93200 invoked by uid 500); 30 Dec 2005 19:16:01 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 93189 invoked by uid 99); 30 Dec 2005 19:16:01 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:16:01 -0800 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [192.18.98.36] (HELO brmea-mail-4.sun.com) (192.18.98.36) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:16:00 -0800 Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBUJFeuf025178 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:15:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0ISB00701R10HO00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Craig.Russell@Sun.COM) for general@incubator.apache.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:15:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-24-6-172-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.172.77]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0ISB00AUMS62SK00@mail-amer.sun.com> for general@incubator.apache.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:15:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:15:35 -0800 From: Craig L Russell Subject: Re: Starting a java specs project In-reply-to: <43B58308.9050505@pobox.com> Sender: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM To: general@incubator.apache.org Message-id: <14ACAC0D-5F3F-4033-AE56-1DCE529CBB43@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary=Apple-Mail-212-896630929; micalg=sha1 References: <43B1681D.40201@toolazydogs.com> <31cc37360512271912l37f3438di32a95f00f71530b1@mail.gmail.com> <2A95CB31-C295-4BD3-BAF4-DC821D6D6FC1@apache.org> <200512310124.18505.niclas@hedhman.org> <43B56F10.5010208@pobox.com> <9e3862d80512300950j7f87aef1ob4e9c4a38497f1d7@mail.gmail.com> <43B57A03.3040504@pobox.com> <8AAC1053-ACCE-4690-A4AE-BAFEF49DAA3A@Sun.COM> <43B58308.9050505@pobox.com> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --Apple-Mail-212-896630929 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-211-896629664 --Apple-Mail-211-896629664 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Dec 30, 2005, at 10:57 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: > > > Craig L Russell wrote: >> On Dec 30, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: > >>> >>> Does it need to? only if people want it. JPOX is the RI, and I >>> always feel that a truly competitive impl of a spec isn't going >>> to be the RI. You don't want to do real extension and surrounding >>> innovation in an RI, I figure... >> I don't necessarily agree with either point. JPOX has gained a lot >> of credibility and good press by being the RI, and it will >> continue to innovate in the product space as well. > > I'm not at all in any way attacking or disrespecting JPOX. I just > tend to keep a clear distinction between RI and indep impls. I was commenting on " a truly competitive impl of a spec isn't going to be the RI", which I agree with in most cases but not necessarily all. > >> The Sun-branded Java EE server is also the RI and has been for the >> last three releases starting with J2EE 1.3. >> Of course, for some, I've proved your point. ;-) > > Yes, I think you did exactly. And it was my understanding that the > Sun-branded server isn't quite the RI? That product development > also goes on top of the RI to make the products? The only difference between the RI and Sun's entry-level enterprise (oxymoron?) product offering is the branding/installation. Sun has additional products that add functionality to the RI like clustering and failover. Craig > > geir > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org > Craig Russell Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! --Apple-Mail-211-896629664 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Dec 30, 2005, = at 10:57 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:



Craig L = Russell wrote:
On Dec = 30, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:


Does it need to?=A0 only if people want it.=A0 JPOX is the RI, and I always = feel that a truly competitive impl of a spec isn't going to be the RI. = You don't want to do real extension and surrounding innovation in an = RI,=A0 I figure...
=
I don't necessarily agree with = either point. JPOX has gained a lot of credibility and good press by = being the RI, and it will continue to innovate in the product space as = well.
I'm not at all in any way = attacking or disrespecting JPOX.=A0 = I just tend to keep a clear distinction between RI and indep = impls.

I was commenting on "=A0a truly = competitive impl of a spec isn't going to be the RI", which I agree with = in most cases but not necessarily all.

The Sun-branded Java EE server = is also the RI and has been for the last three releases starting with = J2EE 1.3.
Of course, for some, I've proved = your point. ;-)

Yes, I think you did = exactly.=A0 And it was my = understanding that the Sun-branded server isn't quite the RI?=A0 That product development also = goes on top of the RI to make the products?

The only difference between the = RI and Sun's entry-level enterprise (oxymoron?) product offering is the = branding/installation. Sun has additional products that add = functionality to the RI like clustering and failover.

Craig

geir

For = additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.a= pache.org

=

Craig Russell

Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo=

408 = 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com

P.S. A = good JDO? O, Gasp!


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