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From Dain Sundstrom <d...@iq80.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] @domain for Incubator mailing lists
Date Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:09:11 GMT
On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:13 AM, Leo Simons wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 04:19:21PM -0800, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>> Give me a break.
>
> No. The incubator PMC has "given breaks" before and it let to  
> undesired
> side effects so now we're not going to do that anymore.
>
>> I'm not trying to hide anything.
>
> In general, when discussing policy or a general case, it is a good  
> idea to
> not use a personal form of communication, because policy has  
> nothing to do
> with specific individuals.
>
> Nevertheless, noted.
>
>> You have a goal
>> to make sure that no one is confused about the status of an
>> incubating project, and you have a proposal that you believe works
>> for mailing lists.  I am suggesting alternate proposal.
>
> "You", "I", "me". *We* have a goal. *You* needs to be a part of  
> *we*, in
> general there is no "I" involved. This is "us vs a problem", not  
> "you vs
> me". Don't confuse the two.
>
>> If you don't like my proposal, simply state that
>
> I read mads his email as exactly that. I even saw two arguments (one
> its clean and simple, two its less cumbersome if we decide halfway
> through incubation that a project is a better fit elsewhere).
>
>> , but please don't
>> imply that offering an alternate proposal is anything else.
>
> C'mon, dude! Do you want to bicker about what some words from  
> someone in some
> email thread might have "implied" or do you want to help tackle the  
> issue at
> hand?

+100000 I couldn't agree with you more.  It is really annoying when  
someone chooses to "bicker about what some words from someone in some  
email thread might have "implied"".

> Offering an alternate proposal as part of a vote thread after the  
> discussion
> has taken place already where one did not participate *is*  
> "anything else" by
> the way. What I didn't like is the very fact that someone out-of- 
> the-blue proposes
> an alternate, since that derails the vote thread, takes time and  
> energy of
> everyone, and is just counter-productive in the end. You may notice  
> that both Cliff
> and I have some reservations but we're not getting in the way of  
> making progress.

My proposal is not "out-of-the-blue".  I brought this up a few days  
ago in the "@domain for Incubator mailing lists" thread to which  
there was one completely useless response from Geir "To what end?"  
and one from Noel where he agreed that the use of a notification  
footer was a good idea, but "having all resources under the incubator  
domain was the original requirement and desire of the Incubator PMC,  
relaxed only because of technical issues that no longer apply".  That  
was it and then it became a vote thread, so I added my comments to  
the vote thread.  It appears that others would like to discuss this  
more.

>> If you have specific, issues with my proposal, that will be  
>> welcome also.
>
> Mads listed two. Of those I find the "simpler" qualifier extremely  
> important,
> since in general this stuff is not, and that's what leads to  
> confusion,
> frustration, etc.

It always helps a discussion to simply use word like "simpler" and  
phrases like "leads to confusion" without a reason why that is true ;)

> Anyway, I suggest you accept there is no "break" to be had, you  
> weren't around
> when the relevant discussions took place, and hence shouldn't re- 
> start one now.

I wasn't aware that new community members weren't welcome in  
discussions that took place once a long time ago.  In that case, can  
you please place a warning on such email threads, since it isn't  
possible since all new users will by definition not be aware of such  
discussions, and we will kindly keep out of these discussions ;)

-dain

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