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From Geir Magnusson Jr <g...@pobox.com>
Subject Re: Starting a java specs project
Date Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:52:19 GMT
I was going to respond last night, but I'd been incubatored-out.

Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> 
> 
>>this is just for sources of javax.* NOT implementations. One location
>>for a servlet-api.jar, jaxrpc.jar, saaj.jar, xml-apis.jar.
> 
> 
> Geir wrote:
> 
> 
>>No - the spec jars for those things.  Not the implementations.
> 
> 
> Ah.  And JavaMail?  There is only one functional JavaMail out there, and it
> comes from Sun.

JavaMail appears to the exception to the "Java is a spec-driven 
ecosystem" rule.  :)  I think that it's a corner case due to the history 
of it - it was before the modern JCP era, and my understanding is that 
it was originally done for client side when everyone [at Sun] thought 
that everything would be java everywhere.

   Maybe Classpathx's can be considered functional.  So we're
> talking just about interfaces, and dummy stubs of classes without any real
> functionality?

Yes - that's what has been driving my thinking, but the more I think 
about it, the more I need to go back and figure out what %-age of specs 
this is relevant - those that are "mostly" interface.

> 
> What's the point?  To show that you can compile and link against the spec?

That actually is near to what is valuable for people, yes.  Writing code 
that works w/ API $foo needs the jar to compile against.

> And, as Craig noted: "There is often what you might call "implementation" in
> the javax.<spec> domain."

Yes, sadly.  That's the problem.  We'd have to decide how much for a 
given JSR before it doesn't make sense.

> 
> And how does this square with Geir's comment:
> 
> 
>>What we're trying to avoid is for those projects that are doing
>>compatible implementations, when people combine code from other
>>projects, there are collisions.
> 
> 
> Why would there be collisions if we are talking about a spec jar, except
> when the spec jars are also the implementation?

Yes, that's the problem.  I've repeated my JAXR story enough not to have 
to repeat it here, but I'm sure it happens more than we ever see.
> 
> I find that I am more in agreement with Craig and ... well ... Craig ...
> hmmm ... odd coincidence.  And both work for Sun.  Odder still.  In any
> event, the idea of an map to where the JSRs are hosted makes sense, but an
> uber-umbrella isn't making sense to me, so far.
> 
> 	--- Noel
> 
> 
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