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From Ross Gardler <rgard...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [RT] Super Simple Site Generation Tool
Date Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:28:58 GMT
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> 
> 
> Ross Gardler wrote:
> 
>> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>
> 
>>> a) edit
>>> b) render
>>> c) examine.  if not right, GOTO a)
>>> d) commit
>>> e) deploy
>>>
>>> a,c are entirely my choice of tool, so it's easy.
>>>
>>> d,e use one standard common tool.  it's easy.
>>>
>>> b needs to be simple and easy
>>
>>
>>
>> The ForrestBot does b, d and e of your, i.e. the three steps that you 
>> don't list as "entirely my choice of tool".
> 
> 
> True, becuase it's SVN.  I suppose that to be fair, there are tools for 
> SVN now ;)  like integration into editors and nice plugins for windows 
> or something.  But I just use svn on the command line everywhere I go, 
> and I mis-thought, I guess.
> 
>> Although e) can not be done on ASF harware until there is a way such a 
>> tool can push the content to the live servers (same problem for all 
>> tools). Of course, it can do the preparation work, such as put it in a 
>> relevant SVN server for periodic pull deployment to the servers.
> 
> 
> I dunno.  Here's how it works w/ the Harmony site :
> 
> ssh -l geirm minotaur.apache.org
> cd /www/incubator.apache.org/harmony/
> svn update

That's exactly what the Forrestbot enables you to do (it will also 
deploy via SCP if the servers allow it).

> Now, we could probably just put a post-commit hook that does the deploy, 
> and maybe tailor it to a specific file, like DEPLOY.txt in the root or 
> such so that you just touch it, commit, and the site deploys, with the 
> added benefit that SVN will give us a log of who actually did the deploy 
> at a given time.

Sure - such a solution would be a good idea since any tool that puts the 
resulting docs in SVN will work with that solution.

>> The advantage of the forrestbot is that if you have users who edit 
>> docs but do not do b through e, then a cron job will reularly run the 
>> build and report any problems via email. This also means there is a 
>> regularly built staging area for people to independantly do c) without 
>> the need to do b).
> 
> 
> But I get nervous about not being able to do any QA - meaning the bits 
> that get deployed to "production" are never given even an cursory view 
> by the human that did the change.

You can still do do manual QA, the forestbot deploys to a staging site 
where it can be viewed manually. You can optionally have it deploy to 
the live server, or you can do it manually by logging into a webapp and 
clicking a deploy button (not installed on the FOrrest zone yet, but I 
run a version on a private test server at 
http://cms.wkwyw.net:8080/forrestbot-trunk/ (not the staged docs and 
access to the last buiod logs).

For example, the Cocoon docs are staged at 
http://forrest.zones.apache.org/ft/build/cocoon-docs/2.1/index.html

These staging docsc are published automatically every three hours by a 
cron job (if it fails a report is sent to the dev list). They are not 
autoatically published, they are still published manually when the QA 
checks have been done.

> I may be a luddite or something, but I don't trust that kind of 
> auto-deployment.

No, I wasn't clear, it's auto-deploy of the *staged* documents for your 
steps b) and c). Hopefully the above makes it clearer.

> I don't seem to be able to grok 
> what actually changes in the doc tree for some arbitrary change. That's 
> not terrible in itself, but w/o having to commit the generated artifacts 
> myself, I can't know if things changed that I didn't expect....

Again, probably a result of my lack of clarity in the original message.

If you put the staged docs in SVN, then you get commit messages. 
However, I am happy with the commit messages from the sources, but that 
might be because of my comfort level with Forrest.

Ross

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