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From Henri Yandell <>
Subject Re: Starting a java specs project
Date Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:42:49 GMT
On 12/27/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <> wrote:
> On Dec 27, 2005, at 11:42 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> > My aim for Jakarta is to either promote subprojects to TLP or
> > flatten them into Jakarta Commons, leading to a non-umbrella
> > Jakarta (I know, you didn't think you'd see it in your lifetime).
> > This new Jakarta would have the potential to serve two roles:
> >
> > 1) Place for Java@Apache to share conversation [general@jakarta]
> > 2) Place for Java@Apache to share code [Jakarta Commons]
> >
> > Storing the spec source there would be good for everyone I think;
> > it would help bring people to Jakarta to share code and
> > conversation, and the Commons community would make good stewards
> > for the code if the various owners departed.
> I'm not sure if I buy that last one - do you really think that the
> commons people are willing to do that?  why?

Yeah, I've forwarded this to general@jakarta as well so I can get
feedback from both sides. The above meant 'the commons community way'
rather than the exact people. ie) I'm expecting the original coders
to, in most cases, still be maintaining and working on the code.

Yoav pointed out that one problem with this is that some of these
things have Expert Group authorization issues. Unsure if we would try
to get rid of those or just maintain them.

ie) Keep them as a part of Jakarta Commons [the community development
at Jakarta] or make a third component in Jakarta [along with Jakarta
General, the conversation place] called Jakarta Specs.

> The point of this was that this is shared code as well as code that
> causes collisions.  Apache Geronimo had to implement this stuff for
> J2EE, but it's a dupe of what we find elsewhere, like in tomcat and
> in web-services land.
> The point was to get people to stop maintaining it within their
> project boundaries and do it in common - I don't think that people
> would "move on" as it's key to what's happening w/in each TLP.  I.e.
> WS needs JAXR for Scout (and so does Geronimo).  Tomcat needs servlet
> for tomcat (and so does Geronimo).  Portals needs JSR168 for
> portlets, etc...
> IOW, there are people already working on this stuff.  This was the
> same motivating factor for Jakarta Commons when we started it - have
> subprojects (w/in Jakarta) bring forth things that they will share
> but will continue to work on as they are fundamental to the
> subproject.  IOW, the contributing [sub]project had a very compelling
> interest to keep going w/ the software.

+1, sorry for the poor original choice of words.

> > Some other pluses are that it would help be a part of an attempt to
> > rejuvenate Jakarta in 2006 (as a kind of federation) and that non-
> > JCP specs could be stored there too.
> >
> > Not trying to intrude on the JCP stuff though, so I can see if it's
> > preferred to keep things under a strictly JCP-oriented environment.
> I don't think that it should be considered JCP specific - IOW,
> there's no reason to keep cc-ing jcp-open, but rather
> general@incubator is a fine a spot as any.

Or general@jakarta if the Incubator  wants to hear about it later
rather than sooner ;)


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