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From Martin Cooper <>
Subject Re: The line between full incubation and IP clearance
Date Thu, 29 Dec 2005 04:31:06 GMT
On 12/28/05, Noel J. Bergman <> wrote:
> Martin,
> > Is there a well-defined line between these two mechanisms for bringing
> new
> > code to the ASF?
> No, not a well-defined one.  The IP Clearance is primarily intended for
> use
> with a relatively simple Software Grant situation into an existing
> project,
> such as libtool, which we can contrast with mod_cli or mod_ftp.  And,
> honestly, I think that we have made a few mistakes in the past by using
> the
> simpler form when a fuller incubation would have yielded a better result
> in
> terms of community building around new code.
> > I would expect the Oracle ADF Faces donation to be substantial,
> > and include a framework that ties everything together. I would
> > have thought that would have warranted full incubation
> Is there community, or just code?  If a community comes with it, too, I
> would certainly expect incubation, however, the e-mail you referenced says
> (in part): "[after clearance,] the MyFaces committers treat the code as if
> we wrote it ourselves", and I don't see any mention of a community coming,
> too.  But here is a sample grey area: one or two committers absorbed into
> a
> healthy community might be deemed acceptable, whereas a substantial number
> of new ones might not.  So if you buy that argument, where do we draw the
> line, and how do we address potential abuse?

I suppose I'm asking prematurely, since, of course, I haven't seen a
proposal either. ;-) However, up until now, ADF Faces has been part of (or
an add-on to - I'm not sure) a commercial Oracle product (JDeveloper). There
may be OTN forums that it's discussed on; not sure if that counts as a
community. Also, since it's no longer all of ADF Faces that's going to be
offered to the ASF, I don't know how that would affect any existing

I expect that some Oracle developers will be listed in the forthcoming
proposal, and they will most likely be needed, too. How many, I have no
idea. How much cross-pollination between the ADF Faces code base and the
existing MyFaces code is also an open question in my mind. At least
initially, I would expect that the ADF Faces code base will be set up as a
separate build and download from the existing MyFaces code, until the
collective team decides how to integrate the two, or even if integrating
them makes sense, versus treating ADF Faces as a separate sub-project.

Martin Cooper

> I'm new in Incubator-land, so I'm not altogether savvy about processes and
> > procedures, but wanted to ask about this one.
> It is a fine question.  Hypothetically, without judging the merits of this
> submission, you raise the spectre of a type of situation that I'd want to
> ward against as a general rule.
>         --- Noel
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