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Message-ID: <19e0530f05090114054af8dff4@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:05:42 -0700
From: Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
Reply-To: dims@apache.org
To: Cliff Schmidt <cliffschmidt@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving
 a project)
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org
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References: <NBBBJGEAGJAKLIDBKJOPOECCDEAC.noel@devtech.com>
	 <be33220f61371216b766766c9cb21f0d@outerthought.org>
	 <19e0530f050901125761816a27@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4ca75eba2640c2ac80bf58dc480e8d35@gbiv.com>
	 <19e0530f05090113424b8a542@mail.gmail.com>
	 <c5e63255050901140136099ee4@mail.gmail.com>

I should have been more explicit. "ONLY one press release that i was
involved in...that was"

-- dims

On 9/1/05, Cliff Schmidt <cliffschmidt@gmail.com> wrote:
> (renaming the subject to try to keep the past flames and future
> discussions somewhat separate)
>=20
> On 9/1/05, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There was ONLY one press release...that was vetted by the prc@. Please
> > complain to the folks there.
>=20
> Actually, there were at least two that I know of:
>=20
> IONA: http://www.iona.com/pressroom/2005/20050822b.htm
> Sonic: http://www.sonicsoftware.com/news_events/pressitem/pressrelease_64=
8412/index.ssp?
>=20
> I was the PRC member who gave feedback to IONA, which they
> incorporated.  Any complaints about that one should be directed at me.
>  Giving it another look now, I think I should have  suggested that one
> of the sentences be reworded to not indicate that IONA is joining the
> project, but that IONA is sponsoring employees who are joining the
> project.
>=20
> Cliff
>=20
>=20
> > There was one document (unsolicited) from Gartner. I've already
> > personally sent a response with help from Justin and others (Thanks
> > justin).
> >
> > So there is nothing left for to do for me other than keep hearing
> > choice words, so i'll just stop and listen. Pile it on :(
> >
> > If there is something else i did not do, that i have control on, let me=
 know.
> >
> > -- dims
> >
> > On 9/1/05, Roy T. Fielding <fielding@gbiv.com> wrote:
> > > I don't see what this has to do with Synapse, but whatever ...
> > >
> > > > IF we even seem to appear to sneak something by AM sure we will get=
 an
> > > > earful BUT in this case we courted IONA and got their support and
> > > > showed that we can build diversity that spans OW and Apache. For th=
is
> > > > what do we get, brick bats again.
> > >
> > > No, actually, nobody has complained about IONA.  People are complaini=
ng
> > > that the mentors are doing a crappy job of controlling the other
> > > commercial organizations who seek to spin Synapse into something that
> > > makes other companies look good.
> > >
> > > > Look we have no code, some code from Infravio is using Axis 1.X and
> > > > the porposal makes it clear that it is only for "consultation" and =
not
> > > > a seeding codebase. So we are practically starting from scratch. No
> > > > one even understands that.
> > >
> > > Then you shouldn't have any seed code and you should just create
> > > a directory and start working.  You created this mess yourselves
> > > by turning it into a Web Services marketing event.
> > >
> > > > Am getting demoralized now because of all this brouhaha over nothin=
g.
> > > > Guess, we don't really mean to be open. Suddenly even building
> > > > businesses around Open Source seems to be a bad idea given the
> > > > reactions for just one DAMN PROPOSAL. I guess given all the acrimon=
y
> > > > we should stop introducing any projects in Apache. Let's just rot a=
nd
> > > > die.
> > >
> > > Look, I am going to explain this as roughly as possible.  Apache
> > > exists now, today, because people like ME and Randy and Jim and
> > > Brian (and now Greg and Justin and Sam and ...) have forcibly
> > > prevented various companies from abusing their participation in
> > > OUR projects through factually incorrect press releases. It is
> > > YOUR responsibility to do that with projects that YOU agree to
> > > mentor, even if it means publicly humiliating the idiots in PR
> > > when they make mistakes.
> > >
> > > This will be a far harder task in the Web Services area (filled
> > > with companies who exist solely on the basis of press releases and
> > > nothing else) than it was for the original Web projects.  You are
> > > swimming in a sewer of bad companies trying to do good.  It should
> > > not be surprising that we need to hose the project down before it
> > > can join Apache.  We need to do that to protect both Apache and
> > > the new project.  It only takes ONE bad project to undue all of
> > > the gains we have made within the ASF.  It is the fact that we
> > > take such care with new projects that differentiates Apache from
> > > other sites that merely host code.
> > >
> > > ....Roy
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service Platf=
orm
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>=20


--=20
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service Platform

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