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From Cliff Schmidt <cliffschm...@gmail.com>
Subject Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)
Date Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:01:06 GMT
(renaming the subject to try to keep the past flames and future
discussions somewhat separate)

On 9/1/05, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
> There was ONLY one press release...that was vetted by the prc@. Please
> complain to the folks there.

Actually, there were at least two that I know of:

IONA: http://www.iona.com/pressroom/2005/20050822b.htm
Sonic: http://www.sonicsoftware.com/news_events/pressitem/pressrelease_648412/index.ssp?

I was the PRC member who gave feedback to IONA, which they
incorporated.  Any complaints about that one should be directed at me.
 Giving it another look now, I think I should have  suggested that one
of the sentences be reworded to not indicate that IONA is joining the
project, but that IONA is sponsoring employees who are joining the
project.

Cliff

 
> There was one document (unsolicited) from Gartner. I've already
> personally sent a response with help from Justin and others (Thanks
> justin).
> 
> So there is nothing left for to do for me other than keep hearing
> choice words, so i'll just stop and listen. Pile it on :(
> 
> If there is something else i did not do, that i have control on, let me know.
> 
> -- dims
> 
> On 9/1/05, Roy T. Fielding <fielding@gbiv.com> wrote:
> > I don't see what this has to do with Synapse, but whatever ...
> >
> > > IF we even seem to appear to sneak something by AM sure we will get an
> > > earful BUT in this case we courted IONA and got their support and
> > > showed that we can build diversity that spans OW and Apache. For this
> > > what do we get, brick bats again.
> >
> > No, actually, nobody has complained about IONA.  People are complaining
> > that the mentors are doing a crappy job of controlling the other
> > commercial organizations who seek to spin Synapse into something that
> > makes other companies look good.
> >
> > > Look we have no code, some code from Infravio is using Axis 1.X and
> > > the porposal makes it clear that it is only for "consultation" and not
> > > a seeding codebase. So we are practically starting from scratch. No
> > > one even understands that.
> >
> > Then you shouldn't have any seed code and you should just create
> > a directory and start working.  You created this mess yourselves
> > by turning it into a Web Services marketing event.
> >
> > > Am getting demoralized now because of all this brouhaha over nothing.
> > > Guess, we don't really mean to be open. Suddenly even building
> > > businesses around Open Source seems to be a bad idea given the
> > > reactions for just one DAMN PROPOSAL. I guess given all the acrimony
> > > we should stop introducing any projects in Apache. Let's just rot and
> > > die.
> >
> > Look, I am going to explain this as roughly as possible.  Apache
> > exists now, today, because people like ME and Randy and Jim and
> > Brian (and now Greg and Justin and Sam and ...) have forcibly
> > prevented various companies from abusing their participation in
> > OUR projects through factually incorrect press releases. It is
> > YOUR responsibility to do that with projects that YOU agree to
> > mentor, even if it means publicly humiliating the idiots in PR
> > when they make mistakes.
> >
> > This will be a far harder task in the Web Services area (filled
> > with companies who exist solely on the basis of press releases and
> > nothing else) than it was for the original Web projects.  You are
> > swimming in a sewer of bad companies trying to do good.  It should
> > not be surprising that we need to hose the project down before it
> > can join Apache.  We need to do that to protect both Apache and
> > the new project.  It only takes ONE bad project to undue all of
> > the gains we have made within the ASF.  It is the fact that we
> > take such care with new projects that differentiates Apache from
> > other sites that merely host code.
> >
> > ....Roy
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service Platform
> 
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> 
>

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