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From j.@jmason.org (Justin Mason)
Subject Re: Roles: user, committer, member, etc.
Date Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:01:50 GMT
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Leo Simons writes:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2005 at 12:45:04PM -0700, Justin Mason wrote:
> > > Indeed. I have a hunch that "re-inventing the collaboration wheel" is a
> > > significant part of "the apache way". An organisational structure that
> > > is completely patching itself at every level has a lot of appeal.
> > 
> > Hmm.  Why does constant change have a lot of appeal?
> 
> Not quite what I meant. I meant that it is good to have people thinking about
> how they want to run their own project and it is good to give them some
> leeway. And incorporating change as part of our processes is better than
> setting things in stone.
> 
> Messiness and confusion seem to be a consequence. Those don't have much appeal
> at all :-)
> 
> > We in SpamAssassin certainly found it confusing, for a while -- we assumed
> > that there was some central thought about this, then realised that no,
> > every project/subproject does it differently.
> 
> Indeed. Incubating a project at apache is hard, innit?
> 
> The SpamAssassin proved very capable of dealing with all the weirdness and
> confusion and inconsistencies. I have the idea (not very founded on solid
> research) spamassassin is doing well without requiring much "active
> oversight" from other parties. I think that partly that may be because the
> project was allowed to "carve out" its own space in the apache landscape,
> perhaps taking its turn at defining some bits of what that landscape actually
> is.

Well, part of it is that we already had a very Apache-ish model in place,
even before we started incubating. Not sure why that was ;)

> > It would be nice to have an "overview" doc on a wiki somewhere, describing
> > different projects' approaches, to make this clear.  It would be
> > especially useful for incoming incubator projects, because in our
> > experience it was a major stumbling block.
> 
> Aye. David has put in lots of work along these lines along with a handful of
> other people. The "handful" is why there isn't better documentation.
> 
> I had hoped that the Incubator would be self-sustaining (in that people who
> were brought in through new projects would stick around and be helping out
> with incubation and other foundation-wide tasks). While there are some
> obvious exceptions, it seems they really are exceptions to the rule.

Well, to provide one person's POV on this -- in my experience, even after
incubating SpamAssassin, I'm *still* learning about ASF processes and
society.  I wouldn't feel comfortable yet to attempt to teach others about
"the Apache way".

- --j.
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