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From j.@jmason.org (Justin Mason)
Subject Re: Roles: user, committer, member, etc.
Date Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:45:04 GMT
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Leo Simons writes:
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2005 at 08:16:49PM +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> > One thing that is bothering at the ASF is not having a clear
> > definition of the various roles.
> 
> Hmmm. I think there's a lot of people not bothered though. Not being
> clear may even serve a purpose.
> 
> > We seem to be having endless discussions at some projects about what
> > it means to be a committer and a PMC member and an ASF member.
> 
> Indeed. I have a hunch that "re-inventing the collaboration wheel" is a
> significant part of "the apache way". An organisational structure that
> is completely patching itself at every level has a lot of appeal.

Hmm.  Why does constant change have a lot of appeal?

We in SpamAssassin certainly found it confusing, for a while -- we assumed
that there was some central thought about this, then realised that no,
every project/subproject does it differently.

It would be nice to have an "overview" doc on a wiki somewhere, describing
different projects' approaches, to make this clear.  It would be
especially useful for incoming incubator projects, because in our
experience it was a major stumbling block.

Even just the links below would be useful. (we went looking ourselves
at the time, and I think got as far as Jakarta, APR, and httpd.)

> As Jakarta people "moved up the ranks" the process documentation written
> (I think by Jon Stevens initially) moved up with them. When that
> happened people disagreed with that process and it got patched. Some
> patches found their way back into the processes of various TLPs. Which
> bits hasn't been overly co-ordinated.
> 
> Compare
> 
> http://httpd.apache.org/dev/guidelines.html
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.html
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/decisions.html
> http://ant.apache.org/bylaws.html http://xml.apache.org/guidelines.html
> http://maven.apache.org/contributing/help.html
> http://apr.apache.org/guidelines.html http://tcl.apache.org/about.rvt
> http://gump.apache.org/bylaws.html
> http://geronimo.apache.org/get-involved.html
> http://beehive.apache.org/contributors.html ...
> 
> TCL talks of a "project maintainership committee". HTTPD still refers to
> "Apache Group" every now and then. Maven, SpamAssassin and Geronimo
> don't describe their processes at all on their website.

nope! ;)   add http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/ProjectRoles to the
list.

> XML says "The
> Chairman or any member may be removed from the PMC by a 3/4 vote of the
> PMC" which is false (the chairman is a board-appointed officer and
> cannot be removed by the PMC at all). Gump defines "committer" but
> doesn't actually really keep track of them (when gump went TLP there was
> really no initial list of people that might be considered PMC members)
> because all of Apache is allowed to mess around with the code. Beehive
> has 0 pages devoted to saying something like "get involved!", the only
> thing that comes close is a news blurb on their front page. SpamAssassin
> has a list of PMC members at the top of their CREDITS file with links to
> Amazon wishlists. That's smart innit! :-)

;)

I think the committers also have a few.

- --j.
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