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From Davanum Srinivas <dava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: a few steps before approving a project
Date Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:37:58 GMT
+1 on all points. i think we are on the same page.

On 9/1/05, Cliff Schmidt <cliffschmidt@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Dims -- I really appreciate the response!
> 
> Comments and responses to your questions below.
> 
> Cliff
> 
> On 9/1/05, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Please see below:
> >
> > On 8/31/05, Cliff Schmidt <cliffschmidt@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > - change the Incubator PMC charter (not that we have a official
> > > charter) to include approving of all new projects, so that once a
> > > sponsor PMC (if not the Incubator PMC) approves a new project, the
> > > Incubator PMC still has to give a final approval.
> >
> > +1. It does not have to be a formal VOTE on the pmc mailing list. It
> > could be a note from PMC chair to general@ after a week or so. If
> > something crops up in that time frame, PMC Chair can ask for a VOTE.
> >
> > > - ensure all proposals use the same standard template -- we've
> > > recently gotten proposals that simply copied some other proposal they
> > > saw -- we're not really making sure that any one set of standard
> > > questions is answered.
> >
> > +1 Absolutely (We do this already, but its because we are lazy :)
> >
> > > - add a question to the template asking whether the person(s)
> > > proposing are aware of similar open source projects inside or outside
> > > the ASF.  I'm not suggesting that a project wouldn't get approved if
> > > there is some similar high profile open source project, but at least
> > > we are explicitly asking the question and getting the information.
> >
> > +0 Folks involved know better than to waste everyones time duplicating
> > work. But If this list makes you sleep better, sure. But i don't
> > really think it will help much.
> >
> > > - consider having a formal liaison at a few key external open source
> > > communities to give a friendly notice to whenever the Incubator PMC
> > > knows there's a proposal that could be controversial.   This really
> > > only works if we add the new proposal question mentioned above and
> > > create a more centralized process of looping the Incubator PMC in
> > > *before* a project is approved.
> >
> > -0 (leaning toward -0.25/-0.5) for formal liaison. Don't want
> > pre-existing preudjices to judge the proposal.
> > AND
> > Incubator our sandbox. -0 to have a pre-sandbox-sandbox. Let's do
> > whatever is needed in public. What are u worried about here? press? I
> > thought we are here to share our work and make the world a better
> > place. Not focused on poll numbers or what the press says.
> 
> I was thinking this liaison notice would happen after the sponsor PMC
> has voted to take on the project, but before the Incubator PMC gives
> its final approval.  I imagine there could be the occasional case
> where the Incubator PMC finds out something that would cause the
> consensus to believe that accepting the proposal would not be in the
> ASF's best interest.  However, in most cases, this liaison would just
> be a chance to politely negotiate any potential PR issues before
> officially accepting the project for incubation (when press releases
> may or may not occur and when reporters start interviewing people).
> 
> > > - require that the Incubator PMC loops in the PRC on any project that
> > > could have any chance of media attention (either because of the
> > > overall significance of the project, the potential for controversy,
> > > expected vendor press releases, or the opportunity to release a joint
> > > statement with some other organization).
> >
> > +1 Question is when do u want this to happen BEFORE the proposal hits
> > the general@incubator or after that? Again, don't want a
> > pre-sandbox-sandbox.
> 
> I've always been in favor of public proposals (and have ensured that
> was the case in each of the three ASF project proposals I've been
> involved in).  So, I definitely am not saying that the PRC must be
> looped in before anyone proposes or discusses a proposal on a public
> list!  However, I think there's value in getting the PRC looped in
> before officially *accepting* the project for incubation.  I haven't
> ever noticed a lot of press as a direct result of incubator
> discussions, and I think there's a big difference between the press
> that can be made about the discussion of a proposal and what can be
> made of an Apache decision to start an incubating project.
> 
> > > I really don't want to add more process than necessary, but as the
> > > ASFs importance continues to grow, I think there a few issues that
> > > should be addressed with each new project, and I'm hoping steps like
> > > these could help that to happen.  Of course, an incubating project
> > > isn't an officially endorsed ASF project, but we still call it "Apache
> > > foo" and it's certainly perceived by the outside as being an action by
> > > the ASF when it is accepted for incubation.
> >
> > Am ok for calling it just "Foo" if it helps avert problems.
> 
> Why don't we just require all new projects be named "Not-Apache Foo"?  ;-)
> 
> I don't have a strong feeling on this issue, but I do think that as
> long as there is any press about projects being started at Apache, and
> especially when we require the projects to use the "Apache" prefix in
> their name, we need to consider that such action reflects on the ASF
> as a whole -- no matter how many times we try to explain the concept
> of incubator graduation.  The other issue is that, if we know of an
> issue that people are likely to ask about, we should be prepared with
> an answer, whether the project has graduated or not.
> 
> I guess this is really about allowing the opportunity to prepare a
> media response for our actions -- accepting a project for incubating
> is an ASF action, one that can be very interesting to the press and
> the software industry in general.
> 
> Cliff
> 


-- 
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/ - Oxygenating The Web Service Platform

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