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From "Noel J. Bergman" <>
Subject RE: svn commit: r178965 - /incubator/public/trunk/site-author/learn/newcommitters.html
Date Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:06:57 GMT
Daniel John Debrunner wrote:

> The history of this discussion was that folks were somewhat unhappy that
> the Derby PPMC voted a committer in without following either of the ways
> described

I do not fault the Derby PPMC in any way.  It has made every effort.

Sometimes changes occur as a reaction.  Voting for Committers on a public
list has always been viewed as an anti-pattern, and came out of Jakarta,
which had no choice.  So there has been a re-learning effort across the ASF.

> So to make "every one" happy we voted to changed to the "ASF
> best practice" as described on the incubator site, and then
> still there are complaints.

And by documenting the existing practices, I "catalyzed" this discussion,
which may result in further change.  Roy seems to be proposing a compromise
of sorts, where the discussion and vote are on the private list, but the
announcement on the public list includes the itemized result of the
positive, private, vote.

> As an incubator project it sometimes feels you can't win
> because there is no single idea of how an ASF project
> should be run.

Any placing of blame on an incubator project for attempting to follow
current practices as best it understands is entirely misplaced.

The Incubator exists to help projects follow he Apache Way (including
clearing IP).  The Incubator is all about Community.  Code cannot be of any
consequence; we have far too broad a disjoint spectrum of projects.  All
that can matter is that we help each to evolve into a properly governed ASF
project.  In so doing, some practices that exist to help us implement and
maintain our core philosophy evolve, too.

Consider that the establishment of the PPMC structure came out of issues
dealing with Geronimo and other scaling of the Incubator.  Derby had an
effect on how copyright is handled throughout the ASF.  And now we are
examining how Committers are voted into place.

I would worry if we our practices were unreasonably static, rather than
seeing in operation a process that can help keep the ASF vibrant for the
long term.  Here we have Roy --- an ASF founder and a past Chairman of the
Board --- and other long-established participants evolving via discussion,
presentation of concerns, and a sincere effort to build a consensus how to
address one of the oldest needs in a forum intended to inform the newest

In my view, these are all good things.  And I hold Derby in high regard for
its contributions and best efforts.

	--- Noel

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