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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:05:52 -0800
From: Cliff Schmidt <cliffschmidt@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Cliff Schmidt <cliffschmidt@gmail.com>
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Prepping for Derby graduation vote
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References: <4237793E.2090702@Golux.Com>
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	 <4238620D.5070702@apache.org>

It sounds like people involved with the project are happy with the
user community and the process being followed by the Derby committers,
and it's great they've added a committer since starting Incubation.

However, the committer diversity issue has been raised as an issue by
at least a couple folks.  While it looks like they meet the
requirement to have committers from at least three independent
organizations (I believe Noel and Jeremy are the two who are
independent from IBM), the other question that has been asked of
projects requesting graduation is:

If a single vendor/individual was to drop their contribution for some
reason, is there sufficient independent community to continue the
project?

Cliff  

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:42:53 -0800, Jeremy Boynes <jboynes@apache.org> wrote:
> As that one committer I am also comfortable discussing this.
> 
> The user community is growing continuously and is very diverse. The
> developer community, while not as diverse as we would like, has
> demonstrated that it is following its charter (found at
> http://incubator.apache.org/derby/ ), is operating independently of the
> main employer, and is following Apache guidelines and method.
> 
> The committers have already committed (sorry) to growing the developer
> base and have discussed approaches that will encourage that. I would be
> willing to commit to the I-PMC and/or DB-PMC that we will continue that
> process after leaving the incubator.
> 
> I would also point out that the number of database-internals wonks with
> the time or even the contractual ability to work on an open source
> database project is limited; for example, anyone with hard-core SQL
> query optimization experience is probably employed by a vendor somewhere.
> 
> To overcome this, we are reexamining the roadmap so that there is less
> focus on database internals and more on integration and management. How
> this plays out will depend on the user community and what they want to
> see implemented, and the diversity there can only help. There are
> several people actively contributing already and I expect to see more as
> time goes on.
> 
> I do not think that the Derby community is ready at this time to become
> a TLP. However, I do believe we should discuss leaving the incubator
> heading for the DB project.
> 
> --
> Jeremy
> 
> 
> Brian McCallister wrote:
> > DB PMC Hat On: I'm quite comfortable discussing this.
> >
> > One committer has been added while in incubation, and there are a couple
> > more people under consideration. The user and developer community has
> > grown, even if the committer distribution is worrisome. Very much worth
> > talking about, though!
> >
> > -Brian
> >
> > On Mar 15, 2005, at 7:09 PM, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> >
> > Considering the recent discussion about diverse communities
> > and such, this may appear ill-timed.  However..
> >
> > I'd like to open the discussion about Derby graduating from the
> > incubator.  The project has accomplished all of its stated
> > goals save for the acquisition of several additional committers.
> > I attest that the project is being operated according to the
> > Apache guidelines and method, and that the community has
> > adopted them and taken them to heart.
> >
> > Since Derby isn't heading for a TLP position (unless someone
> > wants to open that particular ball for some reason), I think
> > they've demonstrated the viability and sustainability.  I
> > would support its graduation IFF the DB project took on, as a
> > specific priority, building the developer base.  (I.e., taking
> > an active role in the project and not just accepting Derby and
> > letting it continue as it has.)
> >
> > Does anyone think this discussion is premature?
> > --
> > #ken    P-)}
> >
> > Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Ken.Coar.Org/
> > Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/
> >
> > "Millennium hand and shrimp!"
> >>
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