Steven Noels wrote:
>
> Lenya has an awkward history IMHO. It has been force-fed into the
> bowls of the ASF upon the idea that a community was more important
> than code, and because of pet-peeves of people: the ASF needed a CMS
> project, and Lenya would be a community seed for that - regardless of
> the community aptness to serve as one. The original Lenya folks were
> clueless about the Apache Open Source Way, but felt so much "invited"
> into the ASF that they figured they were doing a good job. The
> original number of committers was bloated, and their communication
> about the incubation status of Lenya was tendencious at best. Wyona
> didn't do a great job at opening up the project to the outside world
> (other than dumping code into public CVS), and there wasn't much
> direction or shared project ownership.
well, I think it was and is quite different, but it doesn't make sense
to argue about perceptions.
I am not saying that none of us didn't make mistakes, but my perception
is nevertheless quite different, especially since I see ourselves as
individuals and not as a company within the Lenya community.
It certainly makes sense to learn from concrete mistakes, but not from
assumptions or perceptions, because we will probably never stop argueing.
Also I think all of us acted very promptly on requests from various sides.
So, I think the important thing is to look ahead and see the positive side
as Steven is stating below.
>
> What I see now is people empowering themselves and caring only about
> the project, not about all the peripheral dreams or company ambitions.
> This is a tremendous shift in project governance. I think the ASF
> needs to acknowledge and endorse this shift and give these people the
> ability to continue their course.
agreed
> Whether this course will be successful, we will only know within a
> year or so. I hope these folks will be able to attract new committers
> and continue what they started.
I am very optimistic on this, but I guess you know that ;-)
Michi
>
>>> I'll be carefully looking after ASF brand abuse however in the
>>> forthcoming months. This entire incubation episode has left me with
>>> dubious feelings: for a long time, I've been thinking that Lenya would
>>> be a sad example of premature ASF donation. It is good to see that some
>>> volunteers finally stepped up and managed to create real momentum, and
>>> I can only hope they will last for a long time. Lenya will still need
>>> to acquire more external contributors to help them with this effort.
>>
>>
>> I'm glad to hear about the latter part of that paragraph, but you
>> have to
>> admit that the first part of the paragraph is enough to give one
>> pause. So
>> please explain why we should have a incubator release while there are
>> still
>> so many questions regarding the viability of the community? Yes, you
>> are
>> indicating that there are new members within the Lenya community who are
>> focused on doing everything properly. Great, but I'm still trying to
>> understand why there is a need to put out a distribution rather than
>> put all
>> of the energy into helping Lenya conclude incubation and then release.
>
>
> As I said, it's just a matter of the community maturing, and feeling
> two urges at the same time. Order isn't very important here.
>
> I hope this clarifies things a bit, feel free to nag me with other
> questions.
>
> Cheers,
>
> </Steven>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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