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From Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Date Sat, 15 May 2004 06:46:08 GMT
David,

Many thanks indeed.

I'm now a big +1 :>.

Cheers,
	Berin


David Sean Taylor wrote:

> 
> On Apr 23, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> 
>> Guys,
>>
>> I'm going to vote -1 here, until the status file is updated 
>> addressing  some of the original concerns.
>>
>> Andrew Oliver raised a specific point [1] that the Java PMC wanted 
>> the  incubator to specifically consider community.
>>
>> Also, have a look at some of the e-mail in :
>>
>> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SearchList? 
>> listId=&listName=general%40incubator.apache.org&searchText=pluto&defaul

>> tField=subject&Search=Search
>>
>> Guys - I'm quite sure that all the concerns *have* been addressed, 
>> and  an updated status file will cover all of them.  At which point 
>> I'll  gladly change this to a +1.
>>
>> I also suspect that others in the PMC have more visibility than I, 
>> but  we are being quite hard on other projects in incubation, and I 
>> believe  we need to be consistent.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>     Berin
>>
>> [1]  http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg? 
>> listName=general@incubator.apache.org&msgId=792503
>>
>>
> Hi Berin,
> 
> Let me try to address the issues from the above link below:
> 
>>> Please note that my support is based on the following assumptions:
>>>
>>>     1. all spec/seed code will be released (this, in my opinion, 
>>> must  be
>>> done prior to consideration) If thats not till March, then the project
>>> can't reasonably be considered until March. (We don't take on other
>>> closed source projects)
> 
> 
> All code is in Apache CVS. Absolutely nothing is closed. All in the  
> open. Yup.
> 
>>>     2. David Taylor and the other committee members will soon be
>>> released from the Non-Disclosure agreements they are currently under  so
>>> that they can participate freely. (You can't have a community based  
>>> on a
>>> closed spec where the members can't speak freely).
> 
> 
> We can all speak freely and we won't get in that situation again.
> With the public release of the Portlet Specification last year, there  
> is nothing now that isn't already public.
> 
>>>     3. I'm assuming that others including from the Jetspeed and
>>> Cocoon-portal will go add themselves as committers...
>>> http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?PlutoProposal - I will  
>>> send
>>> an invitation out.
> 
> 
> All Jetspeed and Cocoon committers had the opportunity to join Pluto.
> Many Jetspeed committers did decide to join the Pluto team.
> 
>>>     4. The project will keep compatibilty with the spec but we'll be
>>> free to expand beyond it in much the same way Tomcat and other  projects
>>> do. Xerces, for instance, doesn't solely implement just SAX and JAXP
>>> with a parser under it. From a performance standpoint, SAX interfaces
>>> would be nice, having them in the RI (extending the spec) would serve
>>> this purpose.
> 
> 
> The project has already started to expand quite healthily.
> For example, David DeWolf, a Pluto committer, has started a Kuiper  branch.
> Its a refactored experimental implementation of the portal based on COP
> 
>>>     5. Future revisions of the Spec will happen in the open.
>>>
> 
> I give my word as an Apache committer that I will work hard, and  
> already have believe me, towards making this situation (of a closed  
> spec) never happen again.
> 
>>> Please note, I REALLY want to see this at Apache, so this is not a
>>> fillibuster intended to kill the effort to be followed by a series of
>>> Catch-22 arguments (here, but not there, which means it can't be  here).
>>> But I don't feel the participants should be given a free pass into
>>> Apache to create non community-based non-open projects just to get the
>>> feather. If this is going to be an Apache project, it does need to 
>>> be  an
>>> Apache project. If there is motivation on everyone's part, we CAN
>>> obviously fix these issues by addressing them head-on in an honest and
>>> straightforward manner.
>>>
>>> I DO want to particpate, and I DO want to see this happen, but lets do
>>> the community thing. We can certainly resolve these issues if all
>>> parties are motivated.
>>>
>>> -AndrewCOliver
> 
> 
> 
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