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Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:42:12 -0800
From: Greg Stein <gstein@apache.org>
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Re: request for incubation: axion database project
Message-ID: <20031218104212.A12951@lyra.org>
References: <20031210112833.T21988@minotaur.apache.org>
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 from jvanzyl@maven.org on Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 12:57:51PM -0500

On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 12:57:51PM -0500, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 11:28, Rodney Waldhoff wrote:
> > ----------------------------------------
> > Ballot 2:
> > ----------------------------------------
> > Since Axion is to be a sub-project of the Apache DB project and is
> > currently comprised of long standing ASF members and committers, and since
> > some members of the Incubator PMC have recently expressed an interest in
> > only incubating what is to become top level projects, should Axion
> > immediately move to be under the control of the Apache DB project, with
> > the appropriate legal checkpoints to be recorded here within the central
> > Incubator repository?
> > 
> >  [X] +1 Yes, let the Apache DB project handle it (i.e., "graduate" it
> > immediately)
> >  [ ]  0 Abstain
> >  [ ] -1 No, if Axion is to become a part of the ASF, it should be
> > incubated here first.

No. It must be incubated first.

The Board spoke about this topic for nearly 45 minutes yesterday at our
Board meeting. We started to come up with some guidelines for when a
project needs incubation, or when a PMC can directly handle it itself. We
need to work through that on the Board's mailing list for a bit, and then
we'll send out our official recommendation.

One of the main points to make is that we *will* support PMCs doing some
"mild incubation", if you will. Specifically, when the incoming codebase
only needs some IP audit/checklist types of actions. The PMC Chair will be
required to do that personally, and then deliver the completed checklist
to the Incubator for filing/storage.

> If I IP issues are dealt with then I think it would be safe to let the
> interested PMC take care of the rest. Nothing is ever going to happen
> here in a reasonable amount of time. As is the case with the message

How about a little constructive criticism instead? If there is a problem,
then can you think of a way to fix it? And I'm talking about fixing
Incubator, rather than avoiding it.

>...
> work. The Incubator should be a resource for the PMCs and not a massive
> bottleneck to getting anything done.

What are your suggestions for fixing Incubator to reduce the bottleneck?

> I mean lets get real here, the
> incubator is an obstacle currently and it's highly unlikely it's ever
> going to be any different.

As long as posts remain in this tone... yes, things won't change.

> The only thing that could really present a problem is the legal stuff,
> after that let it go.

That is where the Incubator is heading. It is also along the lines of the
"checklist" concept that a PMC will be able to do itself. Give it some
time to figure that out, or help with that process. Okay?

>...

The simple fact is that the PMCs used to "do this by themselves" and they
*screwed* it up. Therefore, the Incubator was created to ensure that we
stopped having these IP problems. Therefore, you also don't get a choice
on handling incoming codebases until the Board provides modified
instructions to the Incubator and the PMCs.

Yes, that sucks, but IP concerns are #1 for the ASF. And we cannot allow
what used to happen before the Incubator was created. Note that we still
still IP problems here and there, but that is based on the failures of the
PMCs to step in and take action when the committers blithely create
problems. Some PMCs are more rigorous than others, thankfully.

-g

-- 
gstein@apache.org ... ASF Chairman ... http://www.apache.org/

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