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From Sam Ruby <>
Subject Re: [RT] Incubator Reorg
Date Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:23:31 GMT
Noel J. Bergman wrote:

> Sam Ruby wrote:
> <lots-of-other-good-stuff/>
>>One thing we have talked about is PPMC's.  This makes a lot of sense for
>>things proposed as new ASF projects.  This makes considerably less sense
>>for donations such as the ones that are coming into Maven.  The PMC is
>>already established.  New committers may come online as a part of the
>>donation, but that is standard operating procedure for PMCs.  As is the
>>role of infusing the culture into the new committers.
> For donations intended for landing in other projects, such as Maven, that is
> the reason why the PPMC consists of that PMC, plus the committers, plus the
> Incubator PMC.  When the project leaves the incubator, the Incubator PMC
> would leave the PPMC, leaving the PPMC in the hands of the other PMC.  At
> that point, the PPMC could be left to operate as a PMC sub-committee or
> subsumed by the PMC.  If this PPMC approach works, it could serve as a model
> for resolving some of the concerns about umbrella projects.

Lets try a few thought experiments.

1) Suppose somebody new contributes 1K lines of quality code a week to 
Maven over the course of a year... and is voted in as a comitter. 
Clearly a CLA is required, but does the a PPMC need to be created or 
does the incubator need to be involved?

2) Suppose I write 50K lines of code and it lives on sourceforge for a 
year.  Maven takes a liking to it and I contribute it (and in the 
process am made a committer).  Clearly a software grant is required, but 
is a PPMC needed or does the incubator need to be involved?

3) Mix scenarios 1&2.  Somebody new to the ASF writes the code on 
sourceforge, wishes to donate it to an existing and vibrant community, 
signs both a CLA and a code grant.  PPMC?  Incubator?

My presumption is that existing, healthy communities can be presumed to 
make incremental increases in the number of committers without requiring 
the incubator to be involved in instilling "The Apache Way" into those 

But I *would* like the incubator to be involved with all code grants and 
with the formation of all new PMCs (by that I mean truly new, not merely 
ones formed by bifircation).

Does this make sense?

- Sam Ruby

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