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From Aaron Bannert <aa...@clove.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] PPMCs for Incubating Projects
Date Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:15:51 GMT
On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 08:49:10AM +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> This is not exactly how it should work.
> 
> What happens ATM: if a problem has to be solved on the private PMC list, 
> we have to use pmc@incubator.apache.org.
> 
> This is a *big* problem, as the future PMCers of the project in question 
> cannot participate in the discussion. I think you can remember the "pass 
> it on" that has been done by Mentors between the pmc and the developers.

I do not believe this is a problem any longer now that we have PPMCs
that include at least a couple Incubator PMCers.

> If we make all developers come on the PMC list it may become at times a 
> really confusing thing, and all projects will know of all others. 
> Besides, the project is still not formed, and so the should not be on a 
> real PMC. Furthermore, we know that more eyes are there, the better it is.

-1 to having all developers join the Incubator PMC list.

> If we partition the incubator PMC list in many PPMC lists, we have the 
> *same* workload we had before, but are able to make developers 
> participate, and in practice we may even have to do less work, as we 
> will pass to become observers.

There is no such thing as "making" someone participate in a volunteer
organization. Having people volunteer to join a PPMC list (as a "mentor"
in the old terminology) makes sense to me. If nobody on the Incubator
PMC wants to join a new PPMC list, then that PPMC needs to find someone
who cares to help them out.

> For example, it's no secret that the incubator PMC has been discussing 
> some action items about Geronimo on the private pmc list. If we already 
> had a geronimo-ppmc, the discussion would have simply be done there, but 
> with the important participation of geronimo developers.

That was a temporary problem that has now been solved.

> Note that this is *not* generic mentoring, but the same identical issue 
> solving that we did till now, only that we get more help and get away 
> with useless indirections.
> 
> Finally, the private pmc list should be a last resort mechanism, so we 
> will not be doing normal project mentoring there.

Of course not. I'm subscribed to the Geronimo dev and ppmc lists for
just that reason.

> I think that the below proposal explains the PPMC in sufficient detail:
> 
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PpmcProposal

This entire email and this whole Wiki thing has become overwhelmingly
verbose for me. Maybe I'm oversensitive to complicated things, but this
is too much. Can we please try and make things simpler, at least for
those of us with poor short term memory. :)

-aaron


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