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From Stephen McConnell <mcconn...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Incubate Apache Repo
Date Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:45:54 GMT


Adam R. B. Jack wrote:

>Noel wrote:
>
>  
>
>>+1 if you mean to incubate a particular project, since it seems that you
>>have a set of codebases and a community to start.
>>
>>However, unless it is willing to be more inclusive of other related
>>projects, I don't think that it should be permitted to refer to itself as
>>the Apache Repository project.  It is a single instance of such a client
>>tool.  Mind you, I would like to see collaboration between these projects,
>>Avalon and Maven.
>>    
>>
>
>+1 to all you said.
>
>I wasn't going for the name "Apache Repository" for exactly that reason.
>
>I don't know who in Avalon to speak to, 
>

There are a lot of people doing a bunch of related things.  You have 
Alex from the Apache Directory Project (who is also a committer on 
Avalon) working on the AvalonRepository Platform - along with myself - 
and in sync with that you have Niclas Hedhman who apart from a bunch of 
interesting things is working on some Eclispse plugins for the Merlin 
product (which is moving towards the defintion of repository enabled) 
that ties into generic repository navigation - and then you have the 
workk from Andreas Oberhack which can only bne described as exciting - 
combining all the right ingridients - just take a look at his roadmap:

      http://www.merlin.softwarefabrik.biz/download/index.htm

And in your in the know ... you will be reaklly tantalized with the 
potential relative to Niclas Hedhman direction which pulls the ntion of 
repository as interactive resouces closer to the picture.

>I didn't know they had a client [I
>thought just contents/repository]. I'll try to find out.
>

The main repository work is related to the following facility:

http://avalon.apache.org/repository/

This work is largely a result of a collaboration between the Apache 
Directory Project and the Avalon Project based on some mutually 
synagistic agendas.  For Avalon we need more server side inteligence on 
the repository - meta data on the server is only a small step - instead 
we have much bigger plans - inteligent back-end systems that are working 
for you.  Thee are lots of layers here - and much of this goes well 
beyond the scope of a generic Apache repository - but you can abstract 
this as look at the Apache solution as a artifact repository and layer 
on that the intelligent solutions.  The above URL is only a small part 
of the equation - the bigger picture is all about dynamic peer-to-peer 
service management.

For the Eve product (Apache Directory Project) is more focussed on the 
questions related to back-office protocols. As we move colser to to 
inteligent back-end systems, the need for metadata plus inteligence in 
metadata generstion becomes a paramount concen. While the repository@ 
iniative is focussed on HTTP, the Avalon story is much more about the 
"value" between the incoming request and the quality of the responce.  
I.e. in pragmatic terms - there is stuff I can do with LDAP at the 
back-back-end that has a very significant impact.  As concens 
@repository this just means that meta data is not immutable (and that's 
a good thing - just in case anyone was wondering).

An if I was a better person I would provide you with all of the names of 
al of the people but because I'm not - I'm only going to suggest the 
folllowing:

  http://avalon.apache.org/repository/mail-lists.html


>
>
>I'm game to collaborate w/ Maven (Wagon, I beleive it is to be called) but
>I'm not sure if there is enough overlap in goals [albeit the concept is
>similar]. I've subscribed to the mailing list, 
>

Me too!

>and am eagerly waiting to see
>

Me too^2

>code/site 'cos I'm not sure if this is intended as Maven-only or generic. If
>it is generic (1. in terms of environments -- ant tasks, Eclipse/IDE
>plugins, command line tools, 2. in terms of repository contents [not just
>things built by Maven], 3. Metadata -- not just POM) then great, let's
>combine. 
>

It's sill an open qestion. I completely agree - POM is not the end game 
- what is interesting is the geneic/cross-community solutions that can 
take us up an order of magnitude in terms of scope and reuse - but what 
is scary is the abilty to make the jump. Do we have the stuff of heros?
 

>But, if the goal is Maven-only, it seems rude to try to defocus
>them onto the generic. It'd lower their bar & increase their workload. Heck,
>guess I ought just CC their new mailing list...
>

Its a question of "where is the bar" and "what is the effort". 
My guess is that there is a change in the air!

Cheers, Steve.

>
>regards,
>
>Adam
>
>
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>
>  
>

-- 

Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org

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