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From Stephen McConnell <>
Subject Re: [Possible Incubation] Apache Repo
Date Sun, 09 Nov 2003 04:18:08 GMT

Jason van Zyl wrote:

>On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 21:47, Stephen McConnell wrote:
>>Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>>>>Small note - some of the participants on the repository@apache are
>>>>discussing the actual requirements - which from my (and other) point(s)
>>>>of view go beyond a file-system http protocol cut-and-dried 
>>>>implementation solution.  Some consider this area to be much more than 
>>>>an HTTP download handler. In fact - if the scope of a repository model 
>>>>were limited to that then would would be missing a really big 
>>>>opportunity to do this in a way is of real value to multiple projects.  
>>>>Yes - you can assume some simplistic models down low - but hopefully 
>>>>this is not just about plumbing but also about addressing the 
>>>>requirements across different abstractions that will ultimately ensure 
>>>>that semantic assumptions are consistent across multiple 
>>>>repository-enabled applications.
>>>The requirement is that ASF-owned software be distributed in an efficient
>>>(for our costs), reliable (for our maintainers), and user-friendly way. 
>>I would add one more requirement to above statement - namely 
>>"machine-friendly".  There is an emerging requirement for application 
>>driven downloading that has the potential to significantly exceed the 
>>classic browser driven requirements that the ASF is addressing today.  
>>This has a direct impact on ASF costs, reliability, and utility.
>I have challenged you to give me a scenerio that I can't satisfy with
>something like the current Maven repository. Instead you drone on ad
>nauseum about the theoretical. Let's have a concrete example.


Look around you - take a look at things you involved with.  I've already 
provided you with examples where the simplistic http over a maven style 
file system layout breaks.  You have already provided me with the 
details of workarounds that the Maven platform incorporates to address 
these inefficiencies.  There is a bigger picture.  That picture is based 
on the collection of the requirements from repository-enabled 
applications - a set of requirements that you seem determined to reject.

We can address those concerns with an open mind (a.k.a. a process of 
collaboration and mutual respect) or we could follow your approach to 
consensus building.  While I'm very confident that you believe that your 
conclusions meet the present and near-term ASF requirement, I and others 
have different opinions.  Should you wish to explore that area more 
constructively - I am very confident that a sustained effort by you 
towards the consideration and appreciation of the opinions and 
experience of others will go a long
way in justifying your potential contribution to this subject.



Stephen J. McConnell

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