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From <aok...@bellsouth.net>
Subject Re: Re: [VOTE] Incubate Apache Repo
Date Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:58:04 GMT
Hello,

There certainly is a vast amount of potential in a community wide effort.  Personally, I'm
interested in the potential for using directories to manage both sources and build artifacts
particularly because of the ability to associate attributes with the items managed by the
repository.  We are begining to discover several potential uses for the concept.

In fact I had some interesting conversations with someone from the subversion team about whether
or not they would qualify a webdav based repository as a form of directory.  I guess it is
one.  Perhaps webdav is the best protocol and then again perhaps there is some potential for
synergy here with a LDAP server.  Directories do have more sophisticated search capabilities
which could work hand in hand with webdav as the backend.  If you look at the process of managing
resources in any kind of repository the operations are mostly reads with occational writes
this makes a directory the ideal candidate especially for storing the metadata.  The front-end
can be webdav however.  Anyway these are just some crazy thoughts I have been having.  The
bottom line is I'm interested in the relationships between repositories and directories. 
I would like to experiment with the idea.  (Please don't worry about the versioning of the
source and build byproduct remark - I'm thinking of the whole gambit at this point.)

If I can help contribute to an Apache effort at the same time I would like to participate
with these objectives in mind.  It makes no difference to me if the project is a maven project
or other.  Contributing to it would be fun regardless of where it went.  So I volunteer myself.

Cheers,
Alex

> Adam R. B. Jack wrote:
> 
> >Noel wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>+1 if you mean to incubate a particular project, since it seems that you
> >>have a set of codebases and a community to start.
> >>
> >>However, unless it is willing to be more inclusive of other related
> >>projects, I don't think that it should be permitted to refer to itself as
> >>the Apache Repository project.  It is a single instance of such a client
> >>tool.  Mind you, I would like to see collaboration between these projects,
> >>Avalon and Maven.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >+1 to all you said.
> >
> >I wasn't going for the name "Apache Repository" for exactly that reason.
> >
> >I don't know who in Avalon to speak to, 
> >
> 
> There are a lot of people doing a bunch of related things.  You have 
> Alex from the Apache Directory Project (who is also a committer on 
> Avalon) working on the AvalonRepository Platform - along with myself - 
> and in sync with that you have Niclas Hedhman who apart from a bunch of 
> interesting things is working on some Eclispse plugins for the Merlin 
> product (which is moving towards the defintion of repository enabled) 
> that ties into generic repository navigation - and then you have the 
> workk from Andreas Oberhack which can only bne described as exciting - 
> combining all the right ingridients - just take a look at his roadmap:
> 
>       http://www.merlin.softwarefabrik.biz/download/index.htm
> 
> And in your in the know ... you will be reaklly tantalized with the 
> potential relative to Niclas Hedhman direction which pulls the ntion of 
> repository as interactive resouces closer to the picture.
> 
> >I didn't know they had a client [I
> >thought just contents/repository]. I'll try to find out.
> >
> 
> The main repository work is related to the following facility:
> 
> http://avalon.apache.org/repository/
> 
> This work is largely a result of a collaboration between the Apache 
> Directory Project and the Avalon Project based on some mutually 
> synagistic agendas.  For Avalon we need more server side inteligence on 
> the repository - meta data on the server is only a small step - instead 
> we have much bigger plans - inteligent back-end systems that are working 
> for you.  Thee are lots of layers here - and much of this goes well 
> beyond the scope of a generic Apache repository - but you can abstract 
> this as look at the Apache solution as a artifact repository and layer 
> on that the intelligent solutions.  The above URL is only a small part 
> of the equation - the bigger picture is all about dynamic peer-to-peer 
> service management.
> 
> For the Eve product (Apache Directory Project) is more focussed on the 
> questions related to back-office protocols. As we move colser to to 
> inteligent back-end systems, the need for metadata plus inteligence in 
> metadata generstion becomes a paramount concen. While the repository@ 
> iniative is focussed on HTTP, the Avalon story is much more about the 
> "value" between the incoming request and the quality of the responce.  
> I.e. in pragmatic terms - there is stuff I can do with LDAP at the 
> back-back-end that has a very significant impact.  As concens 
> @repository this just means that meta data is not immutable (and that's 
> a good thing - just in case anyone was wondering).
> 
> An if I was a better person I would provide you with all of the names of 
> al of the people but because I'm not - I'm only going to suggest the 
> folllowing:
> 
>   http://avalon.apache.org/repository/mail-lists.html
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >I'm game to collaborate w/ Maven (Wagon, I beleive it is to be called) but
> >I'm not sure if there is enough overlap in goals [albeit the concept is
> >similar]. I've subscribed to the mailing list, 
> >
> 
> Me too!
> 
> >and am eagerly waiting to see
> >
> 
> Me too^2
> 
> >code/site 'cos I'm not sure if this is intended as Maven-only or generic. If
> >it is generic (1. in terms of environments -- ant tasks, Eclipse/IDE
> >plugins, command line tools, 2. in terms of repository contents [not just
> >things built by Maven], 3. Metadata -- not just POM) then great, let's
> >combine. 
> >
> 
> It's sill an open qestion. I completely agree - POM is not the end game 
> - what is interesting is the geneic/cross-community solutions that can 
> take us up an order of magnitude in terms of scope and reuse - but what 
> is scary is the abilty to make the jump. Do we have the stuff of heros?
>  
> 
> >But, if the goal is Maven-only, it seems rude to try to defocus
> >them onto the generic. It'd lower their bar & increase their workload. Heck,
> >guess I ought just CC their new mailing list...
> >
> 
> Its a question of "where is the bar" and "what is the effort". 
> My guess is that there is a change in the air!
> 
> Cheers, Steve.
> 
> >
> >regards,
> >
> >Adam
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: wagon-dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: wagon-dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> -- 
> 
> Stephen J. McConnell
> mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
> 
> |------------------------------------------------|
> | Magic by Merlin                                |
> | Production by Avalon                           |
> |                                                |
> | http://avalon.apache.org/merlin                |
> | http://dpml.net/                               |
> |------------------------------------------------|
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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