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From Jason van Zyl <jvan...@maven.org>
Subject Re: Generated sites
Date Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:54:24 GMT
On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 11:32, Leo Simons wrote:
> Jason van Zyl wrote:
> 
> >I only say at the sheer frustration of watching it take an eon to get a
> >Wiki setup and JIRA.
> >
> maybe that's because you're watching :D
> 
> seriously...some food for thought perhaps...
> 
> the wiki is the first bit of ASF infrastructure I'm getting more than
> passively involved in.
> 
> Jason volunteered, I volunteered, we were given access easily enough,
> proposals were accepted easily enough, and then it just took weeks for
> us to get things in shape. That's got little to do with process or
> committees, but more with the busy agenda of the volunteers.

I doubt that.

> I think if people with more of a JFDI attitude and more time (and skill)
> on their hands had jumped in to do the work, it could've been done
> weeks ago. I spiked it yesterday; just wasn't time before.

Again, I doubt that. 

> I guess most of the same applies to Jira. We were waiting for a week or
> two for Noel and Serge to get things in place, now we're waiting for a
> week or two more for Jeff to finish something I can't remember. IMV,
> it has got little to do with committees, more with lack of time / lack of
> volunteers.

Rigth, as with everything things just mysteriously disappear into a
blackhole. Why is that?

> > And that I will be further frustrated in the fact
> >that I can't generate a site because I'm waiting for two committees to
> >reach a decisions.
> >
> If the Incubator PMC were to say to infrastructure "look, we don't
> like this setup and we'll take full responsibility for doing things
> otherwise" I doubt there'd be that much of an issue, as long as basic
> security policy is followed. Its the choice of the Incubator PMC not
> to do so; so any frustration should probably be directed at us :D

The problem is that no one knows where the hell to direct anything.
Typically it's "ask them, we don't know". Or "it's up to them now, we're
just waiting on them".

> With geronimo, the guys were told several times over the course
> of several weeks how to generate and get in place their website
> (which is not rocket science). That's got nothing to do with
> committees either.

You mean with Forrest? Or with Maven?

> I think you make good points about process (the ASF can be quite
> slow-moving and more than a little formal in some respects), but
> somehow my perspective on the examples you provided is quite
> different...

What does that mean? That you're willing to wait around and I'm not? I
don't mind doing some work. I just don't want to be crippled by
committee.

> cheers!
> 
> - LSD
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
jvz.

Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org

In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
  
  -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society


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