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From: Nicola Ken Barozzi <nicolaken@apache.org>
Subject: Re: STATUS file compared/contrasted with an issue tracker
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:20:06 +0200
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Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
>>Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> 
>>> I agree with Nicola Ken (and you) about using the STATUS file for
>>>  project status, and had originally thought to suggest that such
>>> change requests could be entered into the STATUS file, too.
>> 
>> I have checked in the incubator CVS a new version of the Incubator 
>> site, with a proposed new layout.
> 
> Can you post a live copy to your home page or somewhere?

Ok, but the source files are also important, as they are what we will be 
actively working with.

http://www.apache.org/~nicolaken/whiteboard/incubator-draft-new-site/index.html
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/src/documentation/content/xdocs/projects/

BTW, IMHO that FAQ is atarting to come along nicely:
http://www.apache.org/~nicolaken/whiteboard/incubator-draft-new-site/faq.html

>>I am now stuck with exactly this issue, the STATUS files.
>>Could you give me a hand in making a version that can be
>>effectively used for identifying action items in order?
> 
> Be happy to do so.  Of course, you won't be getting this until about 15
> hours after you posted, but yes.

:-)

>>We could use a status.xml file that contains information about who does
>>things, todos, and changes. The less nice side is that it's XML.
>>Ideas?
> 
> Well, I want to hear Roy's thoughts, because the HTTP Server project seems
> to do a lot more in STATUS than most other projects.  Personally, I would
> record in the STATUS file the incubation related information.  Particularly
> issues related to status of legal issues, completion of exit criteria, and
> any other information that the Incubator PMC felt was important.  At the
> least, the STATUS file will naturally be polled by the PMC for each review
> cycle.  If the project chooses to copy the STATUS items into an issue
> tracker so that they'll receive periodic reminders of outstanding items,
> that would be their choice, but the only official document would be the
> STATUS file.  

+1

> Since you want to use XML, if the XML were defined properly,
> someone could write a tool to generate a report of all outstanding items.
> But I don't think that we want to get into the process of building yet
> another ad hoc issue tracker.

Forrest already has a todo-changes-etc DTD that outputs the items. The 
upside is that the changes also produce an RSS feed.

> Or we could stick with plain text.  From what I think we are saying
> (including below), the original status file could come from a template,
> customized if/as necessary by the PMC and placed into the incubator CVS
> module.

That's what I have done now, but the current STATUS files are IMHO not 
suitable for the task.

In any case, I think that plaintext is needed here, so eventually I'll 
have also a text version of the above-stated DTDs so we can have the 
best of both worlds.

>>> The ASF has different projects doing things differently. In my 
>>> opinion, one of the interesting things with Incubator is that the
>>> Incubator is going to bring out those differences, and help to
>>> illuminate best practices across the ASF, not just for new
>>> projects.
> 
>>True. But some things need to be taken into account nevertheless.
>>1 - security (authentication, authorization)
>>2 - history
>>3 - backups
>>4 - change messages to the Incubator Project
>>5 - one place to have all items tracked
>> 
>>CVS gives all of these, and IMHO no issue tracker can easily be made to
>>do it.
> 
> 
> AFAIK, a good issue tracker (bugzilla notwithstanding) will do all of the
> above.  

Through SSH? Can I easily point to a doc that shows what has been done 
in, let's say, 5 years from now?

> But I'm *not* saying that we should use an issue tracker for
> incubation status.  For one thing, we trust CVS and we don't afford any of
> the issue trackers the same degree of trust.

Exactly, agreed.

> So what, specifically, are we talking about in terms of your item #5?  The
> fact that you say "we are not talking about 200 action items, but 20" leads
> me to believe that we're in agreement, and talking about the status of items
> related to incubation.  And those we agree should be recorded in the STATUS
> file.

Exactly. The STATUS files of the projects in the incubator site CVS are 
about *incubation* STATUS.

>>they are free to *also* use an issue-tracker, as long as
>>the mentor reports these in CVS in a reasonabe timeframe
> 
> We appear to be saying the same things, yes?

Yup :-)

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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