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From: Nicola Ken Barozzi <nicolaken@apache.org>
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] PMC Vote to incubate Directory Project
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:37:48 +0200
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 <831314DB-EE07-11D7-B9E4-003065DC754C@blueyonder.co.uk>
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robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On Monday, September 22, 2003, at 07:48 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
>> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> 
> <snip>
...
>> Listen dude, I asked the Ant project myself to move, and got flamed 
>> for that. I lobbied some James guys to do the same. I brought the 
>> discussion forward on the community mailing list. I took part in the 
>> Cocoon project going TL.
>>
>> If there is someone here that has pushed projects top-level, that's me.
> 
> you've persuaded projects of the advantage of going top level. cool. ok, 
> you've now decided that you're fed up of persuading people.

I was not fed up of persuaing. I am fed up of persuading the PMC that I 
want to persuade... bah!

> i can understand that. it's a thankless task.
>
> but IMHO this isn't what pushing projects means. pushing projects means 
> threatening them with an ultimatum - either find some top level project 
> that's willing to accept you or we close your repository and remove your 
> commit rights. IMHO it's unfair to expect the jakarta pmc to put this 
> kind of pressure on sub-projects. this can only come from the membership 
> through the board.

Hey, this is your view, and I have *never* said that. I call that *kick* 
out, not push.

>>> i'm sad that you decided to leave rather than take on (at least some of)
>>>  this task.
>>
>> I'm sad that my last proposal for pushing projects top-level did not 
>> find approval. I don't know you, but I would not take on a task that 
>> others do not agree with.
> 
> it's a pity that you didn't stay around to talk about your proposal or 
> put it to the vote. 

How much time do I need to wait for it. It was not the first time it was 
said, and how could I discuss a proposal that basically got no comment 
(one negative actually)? Besides, I don't usually put to vote a proposal 
that recieves no positive replies.

> maybe we misunderstood your proposal: if you had 
> said "i'll volunteer to help every jakarta sub-project to realize that 
> they want their own top level project" then i think the response would 
> have been different.

We don't all have the same way of expressing ourselves, and given the 
Jakarta projects I had already helped our you would have known.

As I said in my farewell note, I went away from Jakarta only marginally 
for this.

The real reason is that having helped the projects I follow go 
top-level, almost nothing remained at Jakarta.

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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