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From Stephen McConnell <mcconn...@apache.org>
Subject Re: ASF member role - accountable to whom
Date Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:32:19 GMT


Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:

>Stephen McConnell wrote:
>  
>
>>Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Ah, at the end, if a committer considers this unfair, maybe he/she 
>>>should question him/herself before questioning hundreds of his/her peers. 
>>>      
>>>
>>Umm, ....
>>
>>   ... and the "standard member line" gets rolled out once again
>>   to justify the absence of incubator documentation, process,
>>   policy, and accountability.
>>    
>>
>
>stephen, this carp of yours is really starting to get up my
>nose.  stefano did nothing of the sort; here's the *whole* part
>of his message which you conveniently snipped:
>
>  
>
>>There is no policy yet, but if the incubator was to make a policy, I 
>>would be against having an ASF committer which is not a member or 
>>officer being an incubating sponsor.
>>
>>Why? simple enough. If that person was believed good for the job by 
>>his/her peers, he would have been already a member or an officer. Or, 
>>his/her action would make him/her visible for the next election, if 
>>deserved.
>>
>>Ah, at the end, if a committer considers this unfair, maybe he/she 
>>should question him/herself before questioning hundreds of his/her 
>>peers.
>>    
>>
>
>there's nothing in there making the least attempt to justify anything
>about the incubator.  it's a statement of stefano's opinion of how
>he'd feel *if* a particular policy were developed, and why he feels that
>way.
>
>so, please: knock it off.
>

Ken:

I'll "knock it off" when there are a sufficiently complete set of 
policies and procedures in place (i.e. documented and adopted) such that 
the need for Member status is clearly identified as the legal aspect of 
representation of the Foundation (and/or any other quantifiable and 
accountable attribute this forum sees fit to attribute).  This is 
distinctly different from the justification based of differentiation 
between members and non-members that Stefano describes above.  By 
addressing the *real* issue (policies and procedures) that establish 
these roles and  responsibilities we have a framework for accountability. 

With such a framework in place the necessity for particular "Members" to 
discriminate between Member versus non-Member as a justification for the 
decision on policy simply disappears.  So lets "knock it off" with the 
"knock it off" and focus instead on getting roles, responsibilities and 
ultimate accountability of the Incubator in place. 

I should have a first draft ready in a couple of hours. 

How about you?

Stephen.



-- 

Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org




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