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From James Strachan <>
Subject Re: [geronimo] Core Service Framework (Was: RE: Names & Projects)
Date Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:39:25 GMT

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 05:18  pm, J Aaron Farr wrote:

> Quoting James Strachan <>:
>> On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 04:34  pm, J Aaron Farr wrote:
>>> Quoting James Strachan <>:
>>>> To be certified Geronimo needs to fully support JMX. So the current
>>>> plan is to follow the Tomcat 5 & JBoss ideas to use MBeans to
>> register
>>>> & wire the services together. Whatever component model or libraries
>> a
>>>> particular service wishes to use is up to it I suppose, it shouldn't
>>>> really affect the core container.
>>> So geronimo will be built on top of Tomcat 5?
>> Not quite - it'll use JMX & JNDI to bind services into the core
>> container (J2EE certified remember). Tomcat 4/5 will be one of those
>> services that plugs into Geronimo along with things like Jetty, tyrex,
>> openjms etc.
> so the core container will be code developed from scratch within 
> geronimo?  or
> will it just an mbean server from mx4j?

The core container has already been developed - we should be able to 
put it somewhere (CVS / web) soon I hope. Then hopefully things will be 
a bit more clear.

A J2EE container is a little different from an Avalon container. Avalon 
is a generic service/component framework. The core Geronimo container 
is an optimised J2EE container developed from a great deal of 
experience and use of JBoss, OpenEJB & mx4j.  Its particularly geared 
towards EJB & MDBs.

Its not unlike saying, why have 2 web application frameworks (ducks the 
usual JSP v Velocity v JSF v Tapestry kinds of debates). Whilst in the 
same general ballpark they have quite different motivations & use cases 
which leads to different code bases if you want to do them well. Like 
most things the devils in the details. However once the codes put 
somewhere (soon I hope) you'll be able to take a look and judge for 

Note like I said, there's no reason why you couldn't deploy an Avalon 
container inside Geronimo. So maybe a better way to look at this is you 
could embed Avalon into Geronimo if you wish - but for the foreseeable 
future the core container in Geronimo won't be based on Avalon itself.

Remember most of the work is in the services that drop into Geronimo - 
so if you're trying to spread the Avalon word - I'd focus on that if I 
were you.

> Not to rant too much on the subject, but Avalon's containers (ie- 
> Phoenix,
> Merlin and Fortress) are designed to do just this.  JMX support exists 
> and
> there's been some work done on proper JNDI support.  You can already 
> run Tomcat,
> Jetty, OpenJMS and a host of other services within Avalon as it stands 
> now.

I'm aware of that. Like I said - the devils in the details.


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