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From Ted Leung <twle...@sauria.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
Date Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:15:25 GMT
On 7/29/2003 11:51 PM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:

>
> Ted Leung wrote, On 29/07/2003 20.11:
> ...
>
>> Why are you blaming the XMLBeans guys for your not having your act 
>> together?  
>
>
> I'm not blaming them in any way, Ted. I'm surprised that this is what 
> you have gathered from my mails, and if this is the case, I apologise.

When you say "I just blocked some resources from getting created for a 
few days" (when there should have been a
policy that tells us how to name those resources without a flamewar), 
and then follow it up with "Why don't we get to to know the XMLBeans 
guys better", it kind of looks like you're trying to shift the problem.  
Whatever.  I just want to get this thing to the point where we can see 
if the community stuff is working.

>> They can say all they want about how they want to work as a community 
>> and allow non BEA developers and so forth, but we need to see them 
>> doing that.  I thought that was the point of incubation.
>
>
> This is a common misconseption of what the Incubator PMC has to do and 
> this makes me even more sure that this PMC is needed.
>
> Have you looked at our STATUS file? Well, you will see that there are 
> many things that have to be checked that have nothing to do with how 
> they work together. As most Apache guys, you see communities working 
> together and focus on that. But other things are also important, and 
> that's why the Incubator PMC had to be created.

Yes, I've looked at the STATUS file.  You can't miss it -- it's 
autoposted every week.  That doesn't change that the file hasn't been 
updated in 3 months.   Yes, the CLAs and the software grant are being 
worked on.  The code is being sanitized, the package names are being 
changed, etc.   The discussions on this have been going on in private 
e-mail because there's no list for them to go to.  I guess you guys just 
want us to dump all that stuff here in general@incubator.

>
> I'm not saying that your rantings are unjustified, just that there are 
> needs that nevertheless have to be fulfilled.
>
> Remember that your rants about how much time it takes to make 
> decisions are not directed to us, but to Apache, and how Apache works 
> currently. Decisions take time, and the Incubator takes time like any 
> other project. The decision we were taking now is based on the 
> problems about incubation of Lenya, which were recent. And the way 
> infrastructure is handled has nothing to do with the Incubator. 

I'm not part of the incubator PMC, and I haven' t been following the 
problems with Lenya or Tapestry in detail.  My expectation, foolish it 
now seems, was that the incubator was functioning enough to get this 
project off the ground, since it had already worked with these 2 
projects. I thought that the incubator should have had plenty of time to 
get running -- it's been 9 months since it was chartered.  Obviously, I 
am mistaken.

Infrastructure is a separate issue.  I'm well aware that they are moving 
stuff to minotaur these next few days.

>
>
> I have resigned from the Avalon PMC also because I want to help more 
> in the Incubator. There has yet not been a serious tentative to make 
> the Incubation work. We need volunteers, and I see that they are 
> coming; let's get back to work.
>
+1

Could we start by answering my question from 7/22 on the correct version 
of the software license grant document?

I count three at the moment.
1) http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=incubator-general&m=104803185122794&w=2
2) foundation/software-grant.txt
3) foundation/license-grant.{txt,pdf}

Which version did Tapestry and Lenya use?  And can we get it on the 
website, please?

Ted


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