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From Michael Wechner <michael.wech...@wyona.org>
Subject Re: Incubator DOA (Re: [STATUS] Tapestry [LACK-OF] Progress)
Date Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:08:05 GMT
I think Incubator is very fine for defining, refining and formalizing a 
general Apache Incubation
process, which then should be applied by the various Apache top-level 
projects, because else
you might end up with "Baby-Apaches" (but I guess this might be not just 
because there are different opinions on the incubation process, but 
other stuff as well).

But I think Jeff has a point. For instance in the case of Lenya, 
discussions quickly moved to cocoon-dev, because we
proposed Lenya as a Cocoon subproject, and hence the Cocoon community 
cared about it.

Thanks

Michael



Paul Hammant wrote:

>Jeff,
>
>There is more than just Tapestry in incubator.
>
>- Paul
>
> --- Jeff Turner <jefft@apache.org> wrote: > Feh.
>  
>
>>Incubation was a dumb idea from the start.  It is busy failing in
>>practice.
>>
>>PMCs should manage the acceptance of new subprojects, not some
>>disinterested Incubator PMC.
>>
>>IMHO, scrap this failed experiment and let Tapestry migrate to Jakarta
>>without being further jerked around.
>>
>>I feel I'm stating the blindingly obvious.  Is it just me?
>>
>>
>>--Jeff
>>
>>On Mon, Mar 10, 2003 at 06:58:22PM -0500, Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>How, exactly, is Tapestry ever expected to exit the proposal stage?
>>>
>>>Despite repeated attempts, Tapestry is NOT in BugZilla.  We're still forced
>>>to use SourceForge for bug tracking.
>>>
>>>Tapestry's mailing lists are not getting archived any more (not since 2/21).
>>>
>>>Nobody seems to know ANY of the procedures for getting things done.  Nothing
>>>is documented.  Simple things like the correct way to distribute a release
>>>(including signing and mirroring) are just "known" by the right people ...
>>>and I don't even know who is in the know.
>>>
>>>Andrew and Dion have been helpful, both before the move and after.
>>>
>>>The only other accomplishment of the incubation process has been a code
>>>audit that resulted in a shuffling of the libraries checked into CVS and
>>>distributed with the framework.
>>>
>>>Jakarta infrastructure is non-existent. Worse, the Jakarta culture
>>>erroneously expects things to get done based on e-mails, rather than
>>>something organized, like using BugZilla to track infrastructure requests. 
>>>
>>>The Incubator team has yet to provide a time table or a check list to
>>>indicate what the exit criteria are.  In terms of Tapestry's commitments to
>>>the Incubator, it looks like we're more than there (based on
>>>http://incubator.apache.org/process.html).  In terms of Incubator's
>>>commitments to Tapestry ... that is, to assist Tapestry in moving into
>>>Jakarta, fitting in, and accessing infrastructure; very little has been
>>>accomplished.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>>Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components
>>>http://jakarta.apache.org/proposals/tapestry
>>>      
>>>
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>>    
>>
>
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