Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Message-ID: <3E0D0948.3050300@apache.org>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 21:15:36 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoliver@apache.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US;
 rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20021130
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Rodent of Unusual Size <Ken.Coar@Golux.Com>
CC: board@apache.org,  pmc@incubator.apache.org,
 general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Proposal AGAIN
References: <3E07CFF5.4090604@apache.org> <3E0CF39C.9030907@Golux.Com>
In-Reply-To: <3E0CF39C.9030907@Golux.Com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ken,

Reply inline.  The only important content is at the very end of the 
email just above my
signature.  

>
> andy, i find the above a bit misleading..  afaik the tapestry
> people already *know* about the incubator process, and have since
> it was created in october -- through the offices of *your* mail to
> them, i might add.  (correct me if i'm wrong, of course.)  i'm not
> particularly keen on the apparent message you seem to be purveying
> in this one, that a simple jump-into-jakarta process (which was never
> more than discussed) has been turned into a jump-through-the-hoops
> process through the evil machinations of the obstructionist board. 

Everything I know of the incubator is on this page:
http://incubator.apache.org/process.html

my lack of understanding is clearly highlighted in red and greenish 
boxes (I'm somewhat
color blind so adjust your set as you see appropriate)...

It was at no point clear to me whether Tapestry would go directly 
through the Jakarta process
still clearly defined and linked from the incubator homepage: 
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html

My role on the Tapestry project has been to help them adopt a 
meritocratic community based on Apache
values and voting rules.  I could not explain the incubator process or 
how it fit in to a meritocratic
community and so I placed a "please explain" on the wiki and invited 
everyone to please help define it.
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheWay  

>
> :-)
>
> and you make it sound as though this was done specifically for tapestry.
> you know it wasn't; regardless of whether any external proposal
> 'already meets the criteria for acceptance into xxxx', they need to
> go through the incubator.  'already meeting' the criteria simply
> lubricates the process. 

You read my emails too closely.  I am not a person who attends greatly 
to details.

>
>> I suspect the "incubation" period will be short.  There is a catch.  
>> We will still have to apply to Jakarta after the incubation
>
>
> i don't think this is actually the case; sam, didn't you tell us
> in las vegas or the december board meeting that jakarta has already
> accepted tapesty?  as in having a job waiting when it gets out of
> college? :-)

Probably so.  "Managing expectations" -- Apache is an unpredictable 
place with
a strong sense of irony.

>> With that being said, please consider this issue and signify whether 
>> I should move forward with submitting the proposal to the
>> incubator.
>
>
> i think it's clear that the *incubator* is ready; it's up to
> the tapestry people now.

They've voted to go ahead with it.  See the proposal here:  ( 
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewikitest.cgi?TapestryProposal ). 
 Please call a vote on accepting  tapestry into the incubator and let me 
know what the decision is.

-Andy