Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Message-ID: <3DCB1723.80409@apache.org>
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 02:45:07 +0100
From: Stephen McConnell <mcconnell@apache.org>
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To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: veto stuff
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Ben Hyde wrote:

>> Ok - so is it reeasonable to say that one cannot invoke a veto via a 
>> CVS commit message?
>
>
> You write that in a tone that suggests if Jim say's "Nope" your going 
> to run off to some other venue and say "see, look here - it says you 
> can't do that". 


:-)

No - don't worry. What I would like to see is something like this 
addressed in guidelines document. If things like that improve the 
process in the future then is a good thing.  

>
>
> I'd say that not the usual way to veto, but I do recall occasional 
> cases were a veto first raised it's ugly face in a commit that 
> reverted something.  I don't think I recall any cases where that 
> wasn't followed up by a more verbose explanation in the dev@ list.
>
> Historically we attempted to avoid voting in HTTPD, and still do to a 
> large extent.  Even in Robert's Rules of Order voting is the end of 
> debate, and since we have tended to find the discussion useful some of 
> us have tried to lean toward less severe devices; such as: "This is 
> making me uncomfortable, can we discuss it some more?"  [this one 
> almost always works] or "Damn, I don't like that can you back it out?" 
> [sadly that one rarely seems to work].
>
> Veto, and even votings, are pretty crude, cooperative groups shun them.
>
> I'm a huge fan of Roy's recent comment that people tend to avoid 
> conflict and thrash around looking for something to substitute - 
> somebody in charge, a rule, a process, stagnation.  None of these tend 
> to be very good substitutes for doing the hard work of resolving the 
> conflict.  What has impressed me has been how often the conflict 
> resolution has hammered out a more useful durable outcome.  What's the 
> rush? 


+1

Cheers, Steve.

>
>
>  - ben
>
>
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-- 

Stephen J. McConnell

OSM SARL
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